Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I also liked the way Gandalf seemed almost to have forgotten how to laugh in the time he'd been away. His joy just in being in The Shire and enjoying his time with the hobbits brought out the delightfulness of the hobbits but also how greatly Gandalf is worn down by his responsibilities, and struggles and worries in standing against the evils that are beyond the borders of The Shire. It's all very touching, the contrast between the realities of the outside world and the delightfulness of the limited world of the hobbits.
the limited world of the hobbits....
......sigh..........doesn't sound all that bad to me.............
.........wish I could book a vacation in the Shire...........
My belief is that Boromir is, well, blind. He understands things in terms of force and power. Perhaps he believes that there is no such thing as evil power, that all power could be used for good or evil. Perhaps he thinks that the Ring may well destroy him, but that he can save Minas Tirith first. I am certain that if that was the case he would see himself as virtuous in trying to take it.
That does excuse what he did, or make it right; he was wrong to try to take the Ring. But I think it came as the culmination of a long hard struggle with himself. He waged a personal spiritual battle, and at a moment of weakness, he lost. Once the Ring was taken away, he could become his old self again, and we see what he does - sacrifices himself for Merry and Pippin.
Strider the Ranger is a character I quite liked throughout Fellowship of the Ring but as he gradually emerges in the second and third books as the Second Coming of Christ (bringing the dead 'back to life,' healing the sick and performing various other miracles), I found him increasingly more of an icon, a symbolic manifestation of the 'right and proper order of the world,' and less a man with heroic qualities. It should be interesting to see how they portray this metamorphosis in the movies...I wouldn't be surprised by the end to see him cloaked in a glowing aura with a halo over his crown.
Perhaps it's the anti-statist in me, but why must so many heroes in such tales be the long-lost heirs of some royal house or another come to save 'their' people?
Besides, long-lost woodcutter's sons just aren't as fun.
So let me post that - clearly a lowly discussion of Aragorn the man, before considering your more lofty visions:
If I may:
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To: MozartLover; JenB; Penny1; 2JedisMom:
Aragorn's readiness and alertness to Frodo's well-being is at least the most innocent endearing quality that our Aragorn has. When Frodo is in trouble, Aragorn is never far off (only once did he blink, with near disastrous outcome)
One of my favorite scenes is of course the
"If by my life, or death, I can protect you, I will" from Rivendell:
I also particularly like the scene at Caradhras, when Frodo takes a tumble and loses the ring, and Boromir picks it up.
We see Aragorns hand on Frodo's shoulder… supporting him, and letting him know that he need not fear. And what Frodo could not see, of course, and we can only wonder if Boromir could see, was that his hand left Frodo's shoulder to grip the hilt of his sword.
Had Boromir done the wrong thing then… I have a feeling there would not have been a debate about it.
To make the point that Aragorn's not just another pretty face...or perhaps that it's not his face she's interested in. :-)
There is much more romance to Aragorn declaring an edict protecting the Shire from further interference from men, than there would be in some lawmaker proposing a bill declaring the Shire free, and then debate and argument from representatives of Mirkwood, who want the same freedom, representatives of Harad, who think Hobbits cannot be trusted to self-rule, and then representatives from Rohan, who tack on an open space preservation ammendment that gives the pastures of Rohan tax-free status.
Give me the romantic rule of Kings, lest C-Span bore me to tears!
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