Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Otherwise I had a boring, Tolkien-less day with siblings and headache. Thank goodness the weekend is almost over.
It's more than "jock personality". In wartime, the glory hound can sometimes work miracles, but usually gets himself and others killed needlessly. Faramir, no less brave, is doing the dirty, dangerous work of leading a secret raiding party behind enemy lines. He's taking responsibility for the lives of his men, rather than dreaming of the glory of a miraculous victory using the enemy's most powerful weapon against him.
If Boromir hadn't his thinking clouded by his desire for glory, he would have realized that destroying the Ring would do far more damage to Sauron than any mere mortal trying to turn the Ring to his will against its own master.
I'm hopeless..............
They are beautiful images.
You're right. No help at all.;^)
I am glad I missed SNL for both reasons, Ian McKellen's over-the-top behavior, which I guess is not a surprise, seeing the audience for that show, and no LOTR skit either (probably they decided that the props would cost too much).
It'll be a while before I get around to reading and watching the Japanese versions of LOTR, but I'll certainly let you know what I think. It goes without saying that the dubbed version will probably give a fuller impression of the dialogue, but as you know, the "equivalent" expressions in different languages often convey different impressions. In glancing through "The Hobbit" in Japanese, though, I did notice that an effort was made to rhyme the songs, and that Gollum was called Gokuri, which is the Japanese expression for a gulping sound...nice touch.
I fear the "All Your Base Are Belong To Us" effect.
That would only happen if the Japanese were translating into English...and then it would be almost guaranteed :-) One concern I might have is that the subtitle translators here seemingly work at times from the video and not the script, as I have encountered the occasional mistranslation (when I'm paying attention) that without question came from a misunderstanding of the spoken word.
Does New Line have it translated it and dubbed around the world, or do third parties in each country do that? - Is there an "approval" process with New Line to officially sanction the translation?
The subtitle translation for LOTR was done by Natsuko Toda, a name you would probably recognize if you watched a few American movies here as she does the subtitles for lots of the big hits (she also did Harry Potter). She was helped by Akiko Tanaka, who is the translator given the responsibility of polishing up and correcting Teiji Seta's 1960s translation -- apparently there were some inconsistencies in personal/place name renderings into Japanese as well as some questionable spots. I would guess that the dubbing was done in Japan by a local company hired by New Line. I'm sure this is all more information than you need or want, right?
If you're curious to see which Tolkien books have been published in Japan and what their covers look like, you might take a peep at this page; don't worry...it's in English.
Oh, BTW, "The Hobbit" (two volumes in Japanese paperback) is now ranked No. 24 and 26 on Amazon Japan...Bilbo lives!
In the Two Towers, when Sam is talking to Faramir in the chapter "Window on the West", Sam says about Boromir. "I watched him from Rivendell onward and it was clear that he watched my master. In Lorien, I became convinced he would take the ring."
Also, Faramir is not surprised that Boromir made a play for the ring.
In Return of the King, when Faramir returns and Denethor finds out that he did not take the ring when he could have, Denethor said that Boromir would have brought him the ring. In fact, Denethor fully expected Boromir to bring him the ring.
And lastly, Gandalf tells Denethor that he did not trust Boromir.
So, it is my contention that Boromir planned to take the ring the whole time... to use the ring as a weapon for the defense of Gondor.
So very, as I like to say. Isn't he, though! Hair, I can't see your picture - can you give me the link?
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