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The New Hobbit Hole
Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: Overtaxed
...and we wants it!
To: Overtaxed
...and we wants it!
To: RosieCotton
Squirrels!
To: 2Jedismom
No problem, 2JM...we'll keep an eye out for you over at the Yahoo Hole. Check in on us once in a while, and enjoy the extra whistle time!
To: RosieCotton; Overtaxed
Sheesh! Turn your head for one minute to see if Iraq is glowing yet, and look what happens...
To: Corin Stormhands
New Moon already?
To: Overtaxed
New Moon already? Not until Saturday. But I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas...
To: Sam Cree
Right, but our job is to convince the rank and file, not the wacko fringe... so talking to them about power grabs and totalitarian regimes
makes us look absolutely crazy to the person who just likes to look at the pretty river on her way to work.
We have to adjust our arguments to reflect the desired audience... the voters and citizens. That is what the left does. They talk to kids about greener places and show pictures of endangered species. There's is a prettier solution than ranting about UN land grab oppression. We are killing ourselves with the voters ad pushing them more and more into the hands of those with the better sales pitch.
We aren't talking to ELF. We aren't going to convince them first. We are talking to people who see strip malls where they used to see trees, and stories of wild salmon and fuzzy critters disappearing. They don't go to the hatcheries where record levels of salmon are returning every year but not mentioned because hatchery fish don't count. They don't know about it. We need to help them. We need to look like we want to live in a pretty world too, we just have a different way of getting there.
To: Bear_in_RoseBear
This rant wont last long Bear... I almost have it out of my system. Please have patience with me. I will be back to normal soon! ;~D
To: Corin Stormhands
Not until Saturday Well with any luck they'll postpone the Carolina game. :)
They postponed the Carolina/ State basketball game for Desert Storm. Jeesh! You'd think Bush the Elder could have waited until after the game!
To: HairOfTheDog
We are talking to people who see strip malls where they used to see trees, and stories of wild salmon and fuzzy critters disappearing. The greenies are none too happy with my goldfish bowl...
To: Sam Cree
I have to go now... but I will tell you the possum story when I get back perhaps!
To: Overtaxed
Virginia Tech is open this weekend. We're good to go...
To: Corin Stormhands
No, you are definately part of the problem! ;~D
To: Corin Stormhands
Virginia Tech is open this weekend. We're good to go... If they postpone The Race I'll be p....ticked off big time!
To: HairOfTheDog
OK, this doesn't have much to do with what you've already said, but while we're in rant mode...
One thing conservatives seem to forget is that basically everyone is out there trying to do what they think is good and right. In order to change behavior, you have to change what people SEE as good and right, and if you start out by calling everything they believe in evil and wrong, more than likely they won't want to even listen to you any more.
Rational arguments work a lot better than childish "you're wrong and I'm right and you're stupid and I'm smart!" ravings.
To: HairOfTheDog
"We need to look like we want to live in a pretty world too, we just have a different way of getting there"
And our way is going to be a lot more effective, since a free people will not only have more motivation to preserve and take pride in natural beauty, they'll be able to afford it.
But I guess that's your point :-)
To: RosieCotton
Very much agree! - That is what I am trying to say too.
Calling people evil, who don't see themselves as evil, makes them walk away, and go tell two friends how weird and wacked we are.
To: Sam Cree
And, to some degree we have a big problem. You will look long and hard in environmental threads here before you find anyone that expresses any love for nature or values anything natural. I think the respect for nature is there, at least I hope it is, but a better way to preserve is not mentioned. Only my right to do whatever I want.
And I should probably state what I believe nature to be. I believe nature is undeveloped spaces, unpaved and unbuilt places, not places devoid of people. I believe in forests as a resource, and nature can be logged and used and planted and logged again. Logged lands are great habitat and most critters can adjust and even thrive in it.
Wild lands don't have to be closed off from people, and in fact shouldn't be. That is why I do agree with public (government) buyout of land to be kept as a public resource. So people can go there and see it. It doesn't have to be untouched by people to be natural. We are natural too.
So I don't mean National Parks, I mean Dept of Natural Resources land. Recreational backwoods that are also a crop owned by the public. The land that I trail ride in is all public land. Well managed forest that has trails, trailhead parking, rustic camping and is open to hikers, bikers, horsemen and hunters. Entirely private ownership of land cannot garuntee that access by the public to any lands they don't personally own. Leaves us kind of less free to roam.
Lots of timber land here is private and I think that is great. But the private lands are gated and closed to the public. Weyerhauser doesn't want the risk or the hassle of public use, with their garbage, their lawsuits and their campfires. I understand that.
As a taxpayer, I am perfectly willing to have my tax dollars go to lands that will be forever kept from development. I don't mind that a bit, but I'll be damned if I want my dollars buying land that Bay and I can't go and see and explore. Nature doesn't mean we can't be there... it means we didn't take it over.
Oh boy.... I was leaving too.... gotta lot of work to do!
< /end rant (again) >
To: HairOfTheDog
As a taxpayer, I am perfectly willing to have my tax dollars go to lands that will be forever kept from development. Mind if I yank your chain again? :)
As a taxpayer, I do mind if my money goes to lands that will be forever kept from development. If green groups want that land undeveloped, they should spend their own money and buy it instead of forcing everyone else to buy it for them.
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