The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

-----------------------------------------

Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[Overtaxed]

Hmmm....quiet around here. Too quiet. Oh well...might as well have elevenses. Sneak!

[RosieCotton]

Almost time for luncheon here...

[Overtaxed]

Combination elevenses and luncheon. :)

[RosieCotton]

Combination elevenses and luncheon. :)

Is that proper hobbit behavior? How do you get in six meals a day if you go about combining things like that?

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah... Tom Cruise is an arrogant twerp, but a cute one, in his Top Gun and Cocktail days. His mannerisms remind me of my favorite ex-boyfriend that I just can't hate.

Now.... Humor me, if you will, with this observation about this site, on the "I think Tom Hanks is a nice guy" leading to "but we don't know his politics!" (No Rosie this is not all aimed at your comment :~D)

Bashing liberal ideas here has kindof morphed people from criticizing liberal ideas that we think are bad ideas, into bashing people who have liberal ideas, into bashing liberals who are, of course, completely evil and vile.

I completely disagree with that end result. It is not only wrong, but it is bad salesmanship for the ideas we do have. If I truly believed all liberals are evil, I would have to dump my job where my boss is liberal, dump a lot of my long time friends, and dump a lot of the entertainment I enjoy.

I don't think that liberals, as a class of ordinary people, are evil because they disagree on how much the governement should spend on welfare to the poor, or saving pretty places from development, or even controlling guns. They just disagree, and they mean well, they really do, they just have the wrong ideas on how to solve what they think is a problem. I am talking about the average Joe or Jane liberal American that might tend to vote for Democrats, not the antiwar hippie left fringe types, but the mom in tennis shoes.

We win none of them over to our side by calling them evil. In fact, we play into the part that those whispering in their ears tells them we are. Cold heartless and pious. I can't stand that about this site and the caliber of some of the arguments.

We do win votes to our side with reason. There are reasons the welfare mentality is bad for people, and good reasons why people should be allowed to keep more of their money. And good reasons the government should not be allowed to take people's property and tell them what to do with it. And good reasons why people should be able to own guns.

I can win points with them when I give the reasons. I can't tell you how many people I have moved two steps to the right. That is what we should be doing. Bit by little bit changing hearts and minds. Not laying battle lines and making the other side fear and hate us.

Because when a liberal sees a thread here about an attempt to save a piece of ground, he sees land that is beautiful and wild, and people trying to save it, and then angry and paranoid "my right to piss where I please" posts from conservatives calling anyone who tries to save anything a wacko. The right argument is in there somewhere, but which option looks like a prettier place to be?

There are just a lot of arguments that are so winnable if we didn't turn into the angry spitters that many have become. We are marginalizing ourselves instead of painting a picture of a world that would be better if we won.

< /rant > (sorry Rosie, this was building up long before this morning ;~D)

[RosieCotton]

Evil hobbit sneak >;) (666)

[RosieCotton]

I pretty much agree with you (except on the Tom Cruise thing ;-), and it was kind of what I was referring to with my comment. You said it much better than I could have!

I just get really ticked off with people from "our side" who transform into raving maniacs if you mention you dared to, say, watch a Disney movie or bought from a certain store or think some forms of environmentalism are good things.

[HairOfTheDog]

[whew] Well, I feel better for saying it!

[Sam Cree]

"There are reasons the welfare mentality is bad for people, and good reasons why people should be allowed to keep more of their money. And good reasons the government should not be allowed to take people's property and tell them what to do with it. And good reasons why people should be able to own guns. "

Hi Hair, most of the good reasons, IMO, are that "liberal" (leftist, really) solutions to problems lead us down the road to totalitarianism (to serfdom, as Hayek put it). The leftists that think it through realize that, I think, and either switch, or accept that they are in it for the power, or they decide that other things are more important to them than liberty. Years of tradition and upbringing are difficult to change.

My wife just informed me that a possum is growling at her from inside the garbage can. That explains why the dogs have been barking at the garbage all morning, I guess.

[HairOfTheDog]

I have sat in horror and gawked at environmental threads for the most part, because the arguments quickly devolve into crap about the United Nations and people-hating enviro-wackos and I can't get my head around that. But I have started to post on some of them. Started to try to stake out a little ground that is what I think is the right view on it. I feel like trying to impact the discussion a little.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yes, sometimes the dogs aren't insane after all. They shot old yeller before they saw the cougar he was growling at!

I told a funny story awhile back about a possum I tried to chase out of my yard, do you remember it? (or is it "yeah, hair, you told us that story already")

[Sam Cree]

"think some forms of environmentalism are good things"

The Left does adopt many good causes. It's just that they adopt them in an attempt to use them as levers, to institute their leftist causes.

I do have leftist friends that I care about, they are good, if misguided people.

[rightwingreligiousfanatic]

We win none of them over to our side by calling them evil. In fact, we play into the part that those whispering in their ears tells them we are. Cold heartless and pious. I can't stand that about this site and the caliber of some of the arguments.

We do win votes to our side with reason. There are reasons the welfare mentality is bad for people, and good reasons why people should be allowed to keep more of their money. And good reasons the government should not be allowed to take people's property and tell them what to do with it. And good reasons why people should be able to own guns.

I can win points with them when I give the reasons. I can't tell you how many people I have moved two steps to the right. That is what we should be doing. Bit by little bit changing hearts and minds. Not laying battle lines and making the other side fear and hate us.

Because when a liberal sees a thread here about an attempt to save a piece of ground, he sees land that is beautiful and wild, and people trying to save it, and then angry and paranoid "my right to piss where I please" posts from conservatives calling anyone who tries to save anything a wacko. The right argument is in there somewhere, but which option looks like a prettier place to be?

There are just a lot of arguments that are so winnable if we didn't turn into the angry spitters that many have become. We are marginalizing ourselves instead of painting a picture of a world that would be better if we won.

Aaaaahhhhhh.... Just sitting here basking in the beautiful sunshine and fresh air of your post. And squinting a little bit....

You are exactly right. My sentiments exactly. This is why I can no longer listen to some talk radio hosts. I listen to the Christian music station instead. I want to have hope for the future, and think positively, not be filled with anger and malice and dread. There is entirely too much black and white thinking on this site. And I get sucked up in it myself sometimes.

I think it is because it is so frustrating sometimes to hear the other side dominating the worldview in the mainstream media, which brings forth a strong desire to combat it forcefully. And it is painful, difficult, and sometimes confusing to have to deal with the many shades of gray tinging a particular issue.

But I think you are exactly right about the need to be reasonable and rational in showing them the very good and right reasons for why we believe what we believe. If we don't convert them, I think we at least gain their respect and make them think a little bit themselves about their own "black & white" thinking.

OK, just my own $.02.... [end of rant]

[HairOfTheDog]

But see Sam, that is part of the paranoia that has taken us. People don't want to save a piece of river because they want to use it as some power lever, they do it because they (1) think it will save the salmon, which it wont, and/or (2) they think it is pretty and the critters there are cute, and they think it should be kept green instead of turned into a strip mall. They like driving by and looking at it on their way to work.

Trouble is, they don't own it, and we have to find a balance between setting aside some ground for other creatures besides ourselves on this earth, and the right to buy and use your property as you wish.

[2Jedismom]

Hey all! I've been struggling lately with not spending enough time with my kids and with going to bed too late at night...and I wanted to let you know that I'm going to be backing off of Free Republic for a while. I do want to keep up, but it seems lately things move so fast and I'm busy with schooling the boys that I miss huge sections before I know it!

So, before the Two Towers comes out, I'm going to take some time off of Free Republic as a whole for a while. Even my homeschool threads seem beyond me and I feel lost most the time!

I'll still be part of the Yahoo Hobbit Hole, so if anything is going on that you (in the Hole) think I should know about, somebody give me a heads up!

I'll be back in time for a good discussion of the Two Towers, though...I promise!

[Overtaxed]

Is that proper hobbit behavior? How do you get in six meals a day if you go about combining things like that?

It's like working for Aragorn. They don't know about second breakfast, elevenses, tea time...

[HairOfTheDog]

See, there are a lot of optimists on this site... We just need to be louder and cheerier, and drown out the sour-pusses. I should perhaps start a "Cheerful optimism needed" ping list!

[HairOfTheDog]

Understood 2J! - We all need to have lives. Give us a couple hours here and there, OK? We need you too.

[Overtaxed]

Bashing liberal ideas here has kindof morphed people from criticizing liberal ideas that we think are bad ideas, into bashing people who have liberal ideas, into bashing liberals who are, of course, completely evil and vile.

We could always go back to bashing Elves.

[Overtaxed]

I've been struggling lately with not spending enough time with my kids and with going to bed too late at night...and I wanted to let you know that I'm going to be backing off of Free Republic for a while.

You're going to be playing your Susato! :)