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"We need to look like we want to live in a pretty world too, we just have a different way of getting there"

And our way is going to be a lot more effective, since a free people will not only have more motivation to preserve and take pride in natural beauty, they'll be able to afford it.

But I guess that's your point :-)

And, to some degree we have a big problem. You will look long and hard in environmental threads here before you find anyone that expresses any love for nature or values anything natural. I think the respect for nature is there, at least I hope it is, but a better way to preserve is not mentioned. Only my right to do whatever I want.

And I should probably state what I believe nature to be. I believe nature is undeveloped spaces, unpaved and unbuilt places, not places devoid of people. I believe in forests as a resource, and nature can be logged and used and planted and logged again. Logged lands are great habitat and most critters can adjust and even thrive in it.

Wild lands don't have to be closed off from people, and in fact shouldn't be. That is why I do agree with public (government) buyout of land to be kept as a public resource. So people can go there and see it. It doesn't have to be untouched by people to be natural. We are natural too.

So I don't mean National Parks, I mean Dept of Natural Resources land. Recreational backwoods that are also a crop owned by the public. The land that I trail ride in is all public land. Well managed forest that has trails, trailhead parking, rustic camping and is open to hikers, bikers, horsemen and hunters. Entirely private ownership of land cannot garuntee that access by the public to any lands they don't personally own. Leaves us kind of less free to roam.

Lots of timber land here is private and I think that is great. But the private lands are gated and closed to the public. Weyerhauser doesn't want the risk or the hassle of public use, with their garbage, their lawsuits and their campfires. I understand that.

As a taxpayer, I am perfectly willing to have my tax dollars go to lands that will be forever kept from development. I don't mind that a bit, but I'll be damned if I want my dollars buying land that Bay and I can't go and see and explore. Nature doesn't mean we can't be there... it means we didn't take it over.

Oh boy.... I was leaving too.... gotta lot of work to do!

< /end rant (again) >

And our way is going to be a lot more effective, since a free people will not only have more motivation to preserve and take pride in natural beauty, they'll be able to afford it.

With our freedom and the prosperity comes the LEISURE time to worry about such things! The only folks in the Third World worrying about the environment are the UN or NGO folks who are paid to fret. The average African, Indian, or someone in any other poor country is just trying to get food on the table and water to the dwelling. Forget the oceans and the polluted air; they're trying to feed their families!

I agree Hair; bashing people over the head only makes them not want to listen to what you have to say.