Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
-----------------------------------------
Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Best Picture Preview -- What Might Go Down
Naturally a few films stand out from the rest sight unseen. We all know that this never really translates into reality. After all, nearly every film we predicted last year to be a Big Oscar Movie barely registered with the Academy. Early on, who could have predicted Halle Berry in Monster's Ball? A Beautiful Mind was really the only film we all expected to take to the runway and clinch the gold.
However, there are a few films that seem simply too big to ignore, too buzzworthy to overlook, and today we focus on those. In our Fall Preview, we'll first be taking on Best Picture candidates. Then we'll move on, in the coming days, to performers, writers, directors and more.
In truth, there hasn't been a film released, other than Road to Perdition, that has a real shot at the prize. Signs is gaining the kind of momentum that could ultimately translate to Oscar gold, though the reviews weren't that great on it. Were the films already released the only films to choose from, Best Picture would probably look like: Minority Report, Signs, Road to Perdition, Insomnia and for the indie pic, possibly My Big Fat Greek Wedding, which has shocked everyone by becoming THE sleeper hit of the summer. Seriously, the movie has shot up to number 4 this week and it's been playing for months!
Of the films upcoming, two have really good chances at a Best Pic nod -- and both are from, surprise surprise, Miramax. Now, what are the chances that two Miramax movies will make the cut? Not good. Nonetheless, I have my sights clearly set on Chicago and Gangs of New York. Word has it that The Harvey is putting his full might behind Chicago and not Gangs. This could hurt the Scorsese pic significantly, then again, the reverse could be true: the stink of Miramax (people thinking it's all smoke and mirrors and no real substance) could work against Chicago (I doubt it).
Naturally, the Academy cannot ignore Martin Scorsese for the duration of his career (or can they? Hell, pretty boy George Clooney is going to be up too -- so why not make it a threepeat? Robert Redford, Kevin Costner and George Clooney all beat out America's Best Director). But, of course, what with the bad press and all, things don't look as good for Gangs as they do for Chicago, which, if one can judge a film by its trailer, looks too fabulous for words. Catherine Zeta Jones and Renee Zellweger look to be shoo-ins for acting nods. And we all know the Academy loves dem musicals.
But let's put those two fantabulations aside for the moment and focus on films that also may have a leg up in the Best Pic department.
Probably, Polanski's The Pianist will be shut out because of the controversy still swirling around the talented director -- but it's too soon to make that assessment. Though both Frida and White Oleander are enjoying some serious buzzmentum about now, probably we're looking at Oscar nods for the ladies - Salma Hayek, Michelle Pfeiffer, etc., and not for the movies themselves. Remember, for the most part, the Academy is mostly white guys. And white guys, with a few notable exceptions over the years (Terms of Endearment, etc.), pick white guy movies with strong leading male roles. So, for now, those are counted out. No angry mail please, this is opinion, only opinion.
There are few titles that naturally seem tailor-made for Best Pic consideration: The Life of David Gale, Catch Me if You Can and Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. Punch Drunk Love can't be counted out, as P.T. Anderson hasn't entirely worn out his wunderkind status. But word has it the film is good but not Magnolia good.
Two Towers, of course, is supposed to be better than the first and, if it's too big to ignore (which it very well may be, especially given how much the critics loved it the first time around) and if most of the other films don't measure up, we could be looking at a definite nod and possibly a win (though, again, my doubts with the first remain for the second: it's fantasy, etc.). I am not ready to write it off just yet.
As for Signs, sure, it cropped up at number this week, which is pretty amazing, and that in itself makes it more a possibility than previously thought. Here is a film that has struck a chord, and that usually means, well, you know. At first I was skeptical, I'll admit it, but now things seemed to have shifted. It will just depend on how many people still love it by year's end.
So, there are a few I don't have much info on but seem like sure bets: Moonlight Mile, and even the Eminem movie 8 Mile. But ultimately, this is all just anyone's best guess. Remember William Goldman: nobody knows anything.
So, Oscarwatch would have to say, if we were being tortured to nail down five nominees for the top prize, they would be:
Road to Perdition (solid reviews and box office)
Gangs of New York (if there is a god)
Chicago (too exciting to ignore)
Two Towers (if it's better than the first)
My Big Fat Greek Wedding (just a hunch)
Alt. Nicholas Nickleby (another hunch)Other serious possibilities:
About Schmidt
The Pianist
8 Mile (Curtis Hanson with Universal's publicity machine)
White Oleander (if it's as good as the buzz predicts)
Confessions of a Dangerous Mind (if it's a slam dunk)
The Life of David Gale
Moonlight Mile
Antwone Fisher
Signs
It's a good thing you spotted the mistake, and were conscientious enough to follow up on your feeling and correct the error!
My problem wasn't anything so serious... but it took over a day's work to track down the solution. And the annoying part was that the supposed "expert" on the phone should have been able to spot the problem with 10 minutes worth of questioning... but he didn't.
I don't know who wrote this, but I wish I could tell them to go pee up a rope.
Our house feels OK, and then it gets dark and all the heat seems to start to radiate.
About one third a Hobbit first edition.
I have been hospitalized a number of times. I always question every pill I get (I get about a dozen different pills a day). I have caught them making errors a few time. Concentrates the mind, let me tell you.
I have been hospitalized a number of times. I always question every pill I get (I get about a dozen different pills a day). I have caught them making errors a few time. Concentrates the mind, let me tell you.
50 Reasons why
LORD OF THE RINGS
sucks
- Fellowship of the Rings was shoved down our throats.
I've heard some students are even forced to read some novelization of the movie in their literature classes. Ridiculous. Does Hollywood run our classrooms now?
- Greed.
Hollywood can't make a movie these days without crapping out a sequel the next year to squeeze more money out of the sheep. Guess what; there's ANOTHER LOTR movie coming this Christmas. Gee, I wonder what will bring Rocky out of retirement this time?
- Quality Control at New Line.
Millions of copies of the LOTR DVD have thick black bars at the bottom and top of the screen throughout the film. Didn't anyone catch this? You know what happens at the end, in the extreme foreground and extreme upper sky? Neither do I. Bush league, guys.
- They switched Darrens on us!
Look closely and you'll notice the human member of their party is played by two different actors at different points of the movie (it takes a sharp eye to notice, but one of them has red hair, one black).
- Quality Control at New Line, II.
In the massive Mt. Doom battle scene at the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring, a DVD pause reveals at least half a dozen of the 50,000 Orc Warrior extras are wearing modern tennis shoes.
- Speaking of Orcs...
The Orcs were obviously stolen from PC game maker Blizzard and its Warcraft series. Too bad Blizzard is apparently too scared to sue New Line over it.
- Racism.
Percentage of protagonists in Fellowship who are white: 100. Meanwhile the black antagonists and their black crow spies and their black glass seeing ball inhabit their black towers and perform black magic. Gosh, I wonder if there's some symbolism there?
- Gold: The Stretchy Element.
The ring, which is seen to be at least two inches in diameter at the beginning to fit the polish sausage-sized finger of Sauron, suddenly fits Frodo's child-sized finger later. I guess this movie takes place in a world where rings magically change sizes on their own.
- Violence.
Give me one reason that story couldn't have been told without all the fighting.
- Horse sense.
Why didn't they take horses on their quest? Or even better, why didn't Gandalf's giant flying bird friend haul them into Mordor? Watch out, Frodo! All of your methods of transportation have been swallowed by the Dark Lord of the Plot Hole!
- Retracted.*
See below.
- Return of the Living Dead.
If you watch closely during the Inn scene, Frodo and his crew are shown getting stabbed by the Ring Wraiths. Then, five seconds later, they are fine again. Note to the director: try proofreading your movie before you release it to the public.
- Did someone say plot hole?
Liv Tyler's character is seen easily defeating nine strong supernatural beings, even though she is clearly a woman.
- The Battle Droid Syndrome.
The mutated muscular soldiers of Mordor turned out to be hilariously ineffective soldiers, a dozen of them held off by a single dying human. Apparently they made the beasts by crossing Orcs, Goblins and the French.
- Sloppy CGI.
Gandalf's smoke boat is pretty impressive, but smoke cannot be made to travel horizontally, thus revealing it to be nothing but a cheap special effect.
- The Asbestos Wizard.
We all saw Gandalf fall into the molten core of Middle Earth after his battle with the firebeast thing. Well, I guess the Gandalf action figure must have sold well, because in the slap-together sequel coming up this year Gandalf is back. I wonder if they'll even bother to explain it. Maybe he'll be resurrected via voodoo, a la the corpse in Weekend at Bernie's II (look closely and you'll notice LOTR steals several elements from the WAB films).
- Invisible Implausibility.
Every time Frodo or Bilbo went invisible with the ring they should have also gone BLIND. Your eyes cannot function unless light is reflected off the cornea. If light passes through it (as must be the case with invisibility) sight is no longer possible. Also, rings do not turn you invisible.
- The Asbestos Wizard, II.
The giant fire beast thing at the end was breathing a firey breath hot enough to send heat-distortion waves through the air. The sheer temperature of the air should have burned off Gandalf's beard and eyebrows. None of my reading on evolutionary biology reveals a single reason why a particular race of humans would develop unflammable facial hair as this would provide practically no advantage in either survival or mating.
- I'll have to rent that one.
The rushed-through story the screenwriter threw in as the first ten minutes of Fellowship of the Ring looked a lot more interesting than the movie we were forced to watch. Why didn't somebody make a movie off that instead?
- Magic Mechanics.
Experts on the occult say in order for a wizard to floorspin a fully-grown man like Gandalf, he'd need three magical staffs, not two.
- Finders, keepers.
So Bilbo, who we are supposed to identify with as a protagonist, finds a piece of someone else's jewelry and just keeps it for himself? That's funny, because I would expect a good man to submit it to the local Lost and Found so it could be claimed by its owner. It makes me wonder if he bought that hillside house or if he was just squatting.
- Go-Go Gadget Arrow Sprouter.
Legolas shoots arrow after arrow at his enemies, and yet the number of arrows in his quiver never decreases. I guess elves have glands on their back that secrete arrows.
- Watch out! He's going to explode!
The heroes are shown eating again and again, and yet no one ever goes to the bathroom throughout their entire quest.
- Meesa gonna make theesa movie suckah!
The character of Gollum in The Two Towers will be entirely computer animated, in a cheap effort to cash in on Jar Jar Binks Mania. Thank you, Peter Jackson. Thank you right to Hell.
- Propaganda.
The Elves, clearly the most advanced and wise species, are also clearly gay.
- Speaking of Elves...
Elves are beautiful and wise and tall? Great warriors? Makers of fine lightweight weapons? Our modern knowledge of elves has observed only an ability to make cookies and toys. All the elves in the film are portrayed as living in a warm paradise (Rivendell) but our own information tells us the aforementioned group of toymaking elves work and thrive in the arctic. Hey, Mr. Jackson: Research is half of writing.
- Homage or theft?
The "happy village of little people" idea was stolen from Willow.
- Homage or theft II?
The wise old wizard character was stolen from Harry Potter.
- Homage or theft III?
The "travelling on our quest through a corn field" scene was stolen from Shrek.
- Homage or theft IV?
The character of the rebellious-but-helpful Ranger was stolen from Val Kilmer in Willow.
- Homage or theft V?
The concept of the violent dwarf was based on Al Pacino.
- Homage or theft VI?
The "old man looking through the door hatch at the approaching little people" scene was stolen from A Clockwork Orange.
- Homage or theft VII?
The cantina scene with a noisy bar filled with a mix of otherworldly species was stolen from Cecile B. DeMille's One Night in an Alien Bar.
- Homage or theft VIII?
The incident with the flock of evil magical spying crows serving the All-Seeing Eye was based on an actual incident.
- Homage or theft IX?
The character of the Giant Evil Flaming All-Seeing Eye was based on former President Jimmy Carter.
- Homage or theft X?
The character of Elrond was based on Agent Smith from The Matrix.
- Weighty issues.
AKA "Plot Hole No. 273." Even with all that walking and light eating, the character of Sam only got fatter.
- Realism, schmealism.
Liv Tyler's immortal elf volunteers to give up her eternal life for a single romance with a human man. Could any man really be that well endowed? I find it unlikely.
- Hair Today, Gone Tomorrow.
The most advanced civilization is that of the elves, which are long-haired, new-age types? Sorry, Mr. Jackson, but modern science has proven that in any modern civilization, hippies would be extinct.
- Too many notes.
No movie should be over two hours long. Did we need that whole thing in the mine? Didn't it seem like they were just adding pointless scenes in the middle to pad it? It's like they decided beforehand they wanted three hours and used filler to flesh it out.
- Too many notes, II.
I just want to re-emphasize the above point. There is no reason entertainment can't be concise.
- Too many notes, III.
Too many characters to keep track of. The dwarf was clearly only there as a token dwarf character to sell tickets to lucrative movie-going dwarf demographic. Lose him.
- Rationalization for violence.
Why is the black octopus creature painted as the bad guy when it attacks, when one of the fellowship had clearly been throwing rocks at it?
- The Shoeless Land.
The Hobbits both 1) refuse to wear shoes and 2) run a livestock-based farming economy. Wouldn't they constantly be stepping in crap? Why doesn't the movie address this issue?
- Casting.
Why couldn't Frodo have been played by Christopher Walken?
- Casting, II.
Why couldn't Gandalf have been played by Bruce Campbell?
- Casting, III.
Why couldn't Bilbo have been played by Vin Diesel?
- Casting, IV.
Why couldn't the Ranger have been played by a monkey?
- The Score.
The background music wasn't nearly funky enough for me.
- What's that smell?
As bad as the Lucasfilm leaks were last year, the filmmakers of The Two Towers already have the novelization out in paperback. I've seen it at Barnes & Noble already. As if we needed any less of a reason to go see it.
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