Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
While I disagree with your analysis, I appreciate the thoughtful response. I still believe that Arwen was placed in that position to pander to feminism, and I am tired of our society pandering to feminism. I also believe that Frodo should have made the ride alone as he did in the book. Making the ride alone shows the hobbit toughness that we admire. His stopping on the opposite bank (in the book) shows the struggle he faced as the wound and the ring overcame his own will. Your thoughts make perfect sense from the movie-making perspective, and if this were the only point that bothered me, my feelings about the movie would be different.
I've never read Starship Troopers and only vaguely remember the movie. I remember being particularly angry at the 90's movie version of Last of the Mohicans. Whoever made that movie butchered the character of Natty Bumpo horribly. On the other side, I actually like the Jurassic Park movies as much as or more than I liked the books.
WFTR
Bill
Not at all. It's fine with me if you didn't like it. But you came in and posted your 30 grievances on The Hobbit Hole door.
I'm less thoughtful than the others. I happen to think it's a darn fine movie and a fine adaptation of the book. I don't see the need to spend my time answering your criticisms.
But, since we're approaching 18,000 posts, you can hardly expect those of us here to say "Oh yeah, you're right, it did stink up the joint..."
It's not personal at all. It's a difference of opinion.
Yours is just wrong. 
Well, it is a priggish little list....
Yeah, I saw your invite and was even looking forward to his list...until I read it. No, the movie isn't perfect...but it's darn close.
That scene gets to me too. But the one I simply can't handle is right at the end..."don't you lose him Samwise Gamgee, don't you lose him. And I don't mean to..."
To me, that's one of the most powerful lines in the movie.
Tried to watch it again last night with Corin, Jr. But again we started it late. We watched a couple of the features, then started the movie. I didn't even get Frodo out of the Shire before I had to give up last night...
We're taking it to the beach with us next week. (We leave next Saturday). We're planning a LOTR/FOTR viewing party. I'll need to look up some of those recipes...
They didn't? I thought movie elf snootiness changed the whole character of the Elves as a race. Am I the only one bothered by this? :) Outside of Arwen (she can't be snooty towards Men if she wants to marry one), Legolas (he can't be snooty if he's joining the Fellowship), and Galadriel the Elves with their "men are weak" attitude and always looking down their noses (I keep thinking of Haldir telling Aragorn to get his muddy feet off the forest floor) come off looking like a bunch of stuck up jerks. You'd think an immortal people would have time to learn the wisdom of humility. :)
Actually, I think giving Glorfindel's part to Arwen was a feminist pander. I don't think Elrond would let his daughter go running around with the Nazgul on the loose. But I do think she needed an extended role to understand the Eowyn bit.
I enjoyed the movie and just realize that it can't be exactly like the book. I'm happy with the job PJ did. Of course if the choice comes between the book and the movie, I'll take the book any day. Perhaps it would have been closer if it was produced as a serial instead of a movie.
Well, the wife is sleeping (worked last night) and I just got the little one down for a nap. I'm here for a little while...avoiding work, and I need to give the fish a bath (their water is out, I'm waiting for it to hit room temperature). 
Really? You don't think PJ did that for the guys? I do think you're right though that it'll make more since when Eowyn shows up.
I finished re-reading The Two Towers the other day and had told myself that I'd wait until after the movie to move on. Of course when the Orcs took off with Frodo, I couldn't stop. So Aragorn has just left for the Paths of the Dead and told Eowyn her place was in the kitchen (so to speak).
I would never do that...Sneak...
Well....maybe for guys who like sword-wielding elf-chicks. :) Riding against the Black Riders doesn't seem like the thing the real Arwen would do.
I have heard (and not from this forum) that people's opinions of the movie improve on 2nd and 3rd viewings, though for the most I put that to people not familiar with the books grasping more of the storyline. In movies storylines go past you so quickly. I have never seen a movie that is completely faithful to books -- and some of that is because books can be much more complex and intricate, but movies go past the watcher too fast to bring too much complexity in successfully.
My biggest disappointments in story-line were: 1. The very truncated trip through the shire, across the brandywine and through the old forest to Bree; 2. The introduction of Arwen in Glorfindel's role (I was thinking that maybe a flashback type of scene to introduce Arwen as Aragorn's great desire might have been a nice way to introduce her -- but, hey, how about a 5-hour first movie!). Bear's take on this was interesting though, and I see his point, and it does work for the movie-goer that way; 3. Galadriel and the less spectacular than imagined treatment of Lothlorien.
Other than that, I'm pretty impressed with the treatment and expect even better in the next two installments. I'm going to watch FotR for the second time this weekend and I do expect my appreciation to increase (alas, VHS not DVD as I am still stone-age for a short period of time yet), even though I did like it a lot the first time.
I did miss the Bill the Pony story-line a bit, but the kids would've suffered for two years over that one ;(
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