The New Hobbit Hole

[WFTR]

Hi Bear,

While I disagree with your analysis, I appreciate the thoughtful response. I still believe that Arwen was placed in that position to pander to feminism, and I am tired of our society pandering to feminism. I also believe that Frodo should have made the ride alone as he did in the book. Making the ride alone shows the hobbit toughness that we admire. His stopping on the opposite bank (in the book) shows the struggle he faced as the wound and the ring overcame his own will. Your thoughts make perfect sense from the movie-making perspective, and if this were the only point that bothered me, my feelings about the movie would be different.

I've never read Starship Troopers and only vaguely remember the movie. I remember being particularly angry at the 90's movie version of Last of the Mohicans. Whoever made that movie butchered the character of Natty Bumpo horribly. On the other side, I actually like the Jurassic Park movies as much as or more than I liked the books.

WFTR
Bill

[WFTR]

I'm sorry that you've taken my criticism of a movie so personally.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, Corin was sortof making a joke. But it is personal because we don't understand how someone could watch it and not see how beautiful it is... And we love it. And I am sure you can understand that that makes it a little personal when someone is so harsh about it!

You had a list of 30 complaints! Jeesh! Couldn't it have been just the top 10? (heh) I think you can understand that if someone went into the Green Dragon and began posting that Tolkien's LoTR was crap, rehashed Norse fairy tales for children, you would have an emotional response to that as well!

So we will try not to have hurt feelings, if you try to not walk on them too much! - We really prefer to be cheerful here!

Namárië!

[Corin Stormhands]

I'm sorry that you've taken my criticism of a movie so personally.

Not at all. It's fine with me if you didn't like it. But you came in and posted your 30 grievances on The Hobbit Hole door.

I'm less thoughtful than the others. I happen to think it's a darn fine movie and a fine adaptation of the book. I don't see the need to spend my time answering your criticisms.

But, since we're approaching 18,000 posts, you can hardly expect those of us here to say "Oh yeah, you're right, it did stink up the joint..."

It's not personal at all. It's a difference of opinion.

Yours is just wrong.

[HairOfTheDog]

We sure are approaching 18,000 posts! - If we can get enough of us to show up at the same time, we could even get there today!

I invited him to post his gripes here, because I didn't want it to clutter the discussion in the dragon, and almost anything is fair game here in the hole. He said over there that Jackson got everything wrong and he had a list of 30 things he hated... I thought he was joking about the list!

And I thought I would have more energy for responding cheerfully and trying to change his mind... but when I started going through the list, about the time I answered "Yeah, so what?" for the sixth or seventh time to something being moved around, I found it was zapping my strength and good humor.

I don't want to make Mr. WFTR mad at us, because he clearly cares about the story... At least the other purist Tuor over in the Dragon has a friend now!

[Rocko]

Do they give you a choice of full screen or wide screen DVD?

[HairOfTheDog]

I watched the fall of Gandalf just now, and the heartbreaking scene of the hobbits collapsing on the rocks outside, and Frodo's hopeless look.

Tears ran down my face again... I have to say that after this many times I have not been reacting that emotionally anymore, have not been losing my cool.

Maybe it is good that my emotions have been roughed up this morning! It was wonderful!

[Rocko]

I'm sorry that you've taken my criticism of a movie so personally.

Well, it is a priggish little list....

[Corin Stormhands]

I invited him to post his gripes here, because I didn't want it to clutter the discussion in the dragon, and almost anything is fair game here in the hole.

Yeah, I saw your invite and was even looking forward to his list...until I read it. No, the movie isn't perfect...but it's darn close.

[Corin Stormhands]

Tears ran down my face again... I have to say that after this many times I have not been reacting that emotionally anymore, have not been losing my cool.

That scene gets to me too. But the one I simply can't handle is right at the end..."don't you lose him Samwise Gamgee, don't you lose him. And I don't mean to..."

To me, that's one of the most powerful lines in the movie.

Tried to watch it again last night with Corin, Jr. But again we started it late. We watched a couple of the features, then started the movie. I didn't even get Frodo out of the Shire before I had to give up last night...

We're taking it to the beach with us next week. (We leave next Saturday). We're planning a LOTR/FOTR viewing party. I'll need to look up some of those recipes...

[Overtaxed]

I can't say that I liked the snooty elves, but they didn't bother me as much as some other aspects of the movie.

They didn't? I thought movie elf snootiness changed the whole character of the Elves as a race. Am I the only one bothered by this? :) Outside of Arwen (she can't be snooty towards Men if she wants to marry one), Legolas (he can't be snooty if he's joining the Fellowship), and Galadriel the Elves with their "men are weak" attitude and always looking down their noses (I keep thinking of Haldir telling Aragorn to get his muddy feet off the forest floor) come off looking like a bunch of stuck up jerks. You'd think an immortal people would have time to learn the wisdom of humility. :)

Actually, I think giving Glorfindel's part to Arwen was a feminist pander. I don't think Elrond would let his daughter go running around with the Nazgul on the loose. But I do think she needed an extended role to understand the Eowyn bit.

I enjoyed the movie and just realize that it can't be exactly like the book. I'm happy with the job PJ did. Of course if the choice comes between the book and the movie, I'll take the book any day. Perhaps it would have been closer if it was produced as a serial instead of a movie.

[Corin Stormhands]

We sure are approaching 18,000 posts! - If we can get enough of us to show up at the same time, we could even get there today!

Well, the wife is sleeping (worked last night) and I just got the little one down for a nap. I'm here for a little while...avoiding work, and I need to give the fish a bath (their water is out, I'm waiting for it to hit room temperature).

[Overtaxed]

Hello! Are you up for 67 posts of "Mine"?

[HairOfTheDog]

Yes.... That one gets me too... hits me! That actually just happened a few minutes ago now.

I sortof liked it when I fell into the habit of starting the film when I went to bed... for a couple weeks, I was able to stay in Hobbiton without being there when the story turned dark, because I would fall asleep before the party most nights! It is sometimes fun for me to just revel in the cheerful beginning.

[Corin Stormhands]

Actually, I think giving Glorfindel's part to Arwen was a feminist pander.

Really? You don't think PJ did that for the guys? I do think you're right though that it'll make more since when Eowyn shows up.

I finished re-reading The Two Towers the other day and had told myself that I'd wait until after the movie to move on. Of course when the Orcs took off with Frodo, I couldn't stop. So Aragorn has just left for the Paths of the Dead and told Eowyn her place was in the kitchen (so to speak).

[HairOfTheDog]

I will hit you with a mallet if you do!

[Corin Stormhands]

Are you up for 67 posts of "Mine"?

I would never do that...Sneak...

[Corin Stormhands]

I will hit you with a mallet if you do!

[Overtaxed]

You don't think PJ did that for the guys?

Well....maybe for guys who like sword-wielding elf-chicks. :) Riding against the Black Riders doesn't seem like the thing the real Arwen would do.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

Just to help get to 18,000: I have only seen the movie once (in a crowded theatre, with a full bladder...er, another story) and on first viewing thought it a relatively good representation of the story. Primo points for sight and sound -- truly spectacular vision of M-E -- and some mark downs for consistency with the books).

I have heard (and not from this forum) that people's opinions of the movie improve on 2nd and 3rd viewings, though for the most I put that to people not familiar with the books grasping more of the storyline. In movies storylines go past you so quickly. I have never seen a movie that is completely faithful to books -- and some of that is because books can be much more complex and intricate, but movies go past the watcher too fast to bring too much complexity in successfully.

My biggest disappointments in story-line were: 1. The very truncated trip through the shire, across the brandywine and through the old forest to Bree; 2. The introduction of Arwen in Glorfindel's role (I was thinking that maybe a flashback type of scene to introduce Arwen as Aragorn's great desire might have been a nice way to introduce her -- but, hey, how about a 5-hour first movie!). Bear's take on this was interesting though, and I see his point, and it does work for the movie-goer that way; 3. Galadriel and the less spectacular than imagined treatment of Lothlorien.

Other than that, I'm pretty impressed with the treatment and expect even better in the next two installments. I'm going to watch FotR for the second time this weekend and I do expect my appreciation to increase (alas, VHS not DVD as I am still stone-age for a short period of time yet), even though I did like it a lot the first time.

I did miss the Bill the Pony story-line a bit, but the kids would've suffered for two years over that one ;(