Posted on 07/03/2025 5:38:42 PM PDT by Angelino97
“You and I don’t have the same Jesus or the same Gospel”
That’s because I have the Jesus in the Gispels as taught by the Apostles who learnt it from Christ God Himself.
You have numerology and 20th century Scooby doo philosophy.
No contest.
Your latest response is a chaotic, vitriolic rant that doubles down on dispensationalist distortions, slanders the Catholic Church as the “Mother of Harlots,” and accuses it of peddling “demon-possessed unclean doctrines” over a 2,000-year Church age corrupted by Satan. You weave a speculative web, linking the 2,000 cubits of Joshua 3:4, the 2,000 swine of Mark 5:13, and the “three measures of leaven” in Matthew 13:33 to paint the Church as a leavened, demonic failure, awaiting a literal Jewish millennium. Your attack on Catholic practices—Christmas, Marian devotion, even the liturgical calendar—is not just unbiblical but a grotesque caricature of the apostolic faith. This isn’t exegesis; it’s a dispensationalist fever dream, riddled with hermeneutical holes and exegetical errors. Below is a deeply Catholic, biblically grounded response that obliterates your claims, exposes the bankruptcy of your hermeneutics, and defends the Church’s truth with Scripture, Tradition, and reason, holding no punches as requested. Your accusations crumble under the light of Christ’s Word.
Let’s point out your theology’s holes:
1. Your Hermeneutics are not more than speculative Numerology, not exegesis
Your entire argument hinges on a fanciful numerological scheme—connecting the 2,000 cubits in Joshua 3:4, the 2,000 swine in Mark 5:13, and the “three measures of leaven” in Matthew 13:33 to a 2,000-year Church age corrupted by demons. This is not biblical exegesis but eisegesis, imposing a dispensationalist agenda onto unrelated texts. Let’s expose the holes:
- Joshua 3:4: You claim the 2,000 cubits distance from the Ark symbolizes 2,000 years of the Church age, separated from Christ (the “Ark in heaven”). This is pure speculation. Joshua 3:4’s context is practical: the distance ensured reverence and visibility as Israel crossed the Jordan. No New Testament text links this to a 2,000-year Church age. The Ark prefigures Christ’s presence (Hebrews 9:11–12), accessible now through the Church (Ephesians 2:18), not distant. Your numerology lacks any scriptural warrant.
- Mark 5:13: You equate the 2,000 demon-possessed swine with the Church age, calling it “demon-possessed unclean years.” This is a grotesque misreading. Mark 5:1–13 shows Jesus’ authority over evil, casting demons into swine, which drown, symbolizing their defeat (Mark 5:15). The number 2,000 is incidental, describing the herd, not a prophecy. No apostle or Father connects this to the Church. Your slander of Christ’s Church (Matthew 16:18) as demonic contradicts His promise: “The gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
- Matthew 13:33: You misinterpret the “three measures of leaven” as demonic corruption in the Church. In context, Jesus’ parable of the leaven depicts the Kingdom’s growth, permeating the world positively (Luke 13:20–21), like yeast in bread. Leaven is not inherently evil—Scripture uses it neutrally (Leviticus 23:17). Your negative spin is dispensationalist pessimism, assuming the Church’s failure, which contradicts Ephesians 5:27: Christ presents the Church “without spot or wrinkle.”
Your hermeneutic cherry-picks numbers, ignores context, and invents connections absent from Scripture. This isn’t exegesis—it’s fantasy, rooted in John Nelson Darby’s 19th-century dispensationalism, not the apostles’ teaching.
2. The Church Age: Christ’s Reign,
You portray the Church age as 2,000 years of “demon-possessed doctrines,” with Satan’s influence corrupting the gospel. This is a blasphemous attack on Christ’s Church, contradicting Scripture and the Holy Spirit’s guidance.
You deny Christ’s Victory: Revelation 20:2–3 says Satan is “bound” during the “thousand years,” which Catholics interpret as the Church age, where Christ’s resurrection limits Satan’s deception (John 12:31: “Now the ruler of this world will be cast out”). The gospel’s spread (Acts 1:8) fulfills this binding, despite Satan’s ongoing activity (1 Peter 5:8). Your claim of a demon-ruled Church denies Christ’s lordship (Ephesians 1:20–22: “He seated Him… above every name”).
You deny the Church’s Endurance: Jesus promises the Church’s invincibility (Matthew 16:18) and the Spirit’s guidance (John 16:13). Paul calls the Church “the pillar and bulwark of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15), not a leavened lump of demons. Your dispensationalist view, expecting a future Jewish kingdom, dismisses the Church as a failure, contradicting its role as Christ’s Bride (Ephesians 5:25–27).
You call the Church the “Mother of Harlots” (Revelation 17:5), a dispensationalist trope misapplied to Catholicism. In context, the “harlot” is apostate Jerusalem of 67 AD.
3. The Leaven and Pentecost: Your Misreading of Parables and Feasts
You claim the “three measures of leaven” (Matthew 13:33) and the “two leavened loaves” at Pentecost (Leviticus 23:17) prove the Church’s corruption, contrasting with Christ as the “Unleavened Bread of Sincerity and Truth” (1 Corinthians 5:8). This is exegetical malpractice.
Parable of the Leaven: Matthew 13:33’s leaven symbolizes the Kingdom’s transformative growth, not corruption. Jesus compares the Kingdom to yeast that leavens dough, spreading invisibly but powerfully (Luke 13:20–21). Your negative reading ignores the parable’s context, where the mustard seed (Matthew 13:31–32) also depicts growth, with “birds” (not demons) as nations resting in its branches (Ezekiel 17:23). The early Fathers, like Irenaeus (Against Heresies 5.9), saw leaven as the gospel’s spread, not demonic infiltration.
Pentecost’s Leavened Loaves: Leviticus 23:17’s two leavened loaves at the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost) represent the firstfruits of the harvest, offered to God. Leaven here is neutral, part of a prescribed offering, not a symbol of evil. You contrast this with Christ as “unleavened” (1 Corinthians 5:7–8), but the analogy fails—Pentecost’s loaves prefigure the Church, Jew and Gentile united (Acts 2:1–4), not corruption. Your claim that the Church is “insincerity and falsehoods” slanders the Spirit’s work (Acts 2:38).
Christ as Unleavened: 1 Corinthians 5:7–8 calls Christ our “Passover lamb” and urges believers to be “unleavened” in holiness. This doesn’t negate the Church’s mission but calls it to purity, which the Catholic Church upholds through sacraments and doctrine (CCC 1324). Your portrayal of the Church as leavened with demons defies Christ’s cleansing (Ephesians 5:26).
You rail against Christmas, January 1 (likely New Year’s or Mary’s Solemnity), February 2 (Candlemas), and days named after pagan gods (“Frigg Day,” “Saturn Day”), calling them “doctrines of demons” destined for the “Lake of Fire.”. This is sheer historical ignorance on your part
Christmas: Celebrating Christ’s birth (circa December 25) is rooted in early Christian tradition, possibly linked to the Annunciation’s dating (Luke 1:26–38). Sol invictus came AFTER Christian’s had started celebrating December 25.
Day Names: English weekdays (Friday, Saturday) derive from Norse and Roman mythology, but this is linguistic, not theological. Catholics don’t worship Frigg or Saturn by saying “Friday.” Your legalism echoes Colossians 2:16: “Let no one pass judgment on you in questions of… festivals or sabbaths.”
You accuse me of reading a “different Bible” and being “led into Babylon,” while slandering the Church as a harlot peddling demonic doctrines.
Prove your “doctrines of demons” charge—name one Catholic teaching that denies Christ’s gospel—or admit you’re bearing false witness (Exodus 20:16).
Prove your “doctrines of demons” charge—name one Catholic teaching that denies Christ’s gospel—or admit you’re bearing false witness (Exodus 20:16).
....
I did with 3 days.
Passover - the 14th Day in accordance with scriptures.
Unleavened Bread -the 15th Day in accordance with scriptures
First Fruits- the 16th Day in accordance with the scriptures.
Your religion doesn’t believe in that First/Chief importance of the gospel.
Paul and the first disciples don’t have the same Jesus or gospel as your religion either.
When it says Satan deceives the Whole World, believe it.
Or don’t
I believe it.
And Islam, Judaism and Christianity have a Satan deceiving them problem.
Your response is a jumbled mess of numerology, vague accusations, and dispensationalist sleight-of-hand, but it fails spectacularly to answer my challenge.
I asked for a specific Catholic teaching that denies Christ’s gospel, and instead, you got a cryptic word salad about Passover dates and a smug “Satan deceives the whole world” jab
You are tossing out Jewish feast dates from Leviticus 23, trying to tie them to Christ’s death and resurrection, and implying Catholics somehow reject this. But you explain how this proves a Catholic teaching denies the gospel. It’s a non-sequitur. The Catholic Church absolutely affirms the historical and theological reality of Christ’s death and resurrection, which fulfilled the Passover (1 Cor 5:7) and initiated the new covenant. The dates? We don’t quibble over them because the gospel isn’t a math problem—it’s the truth of Christ’s atoning sacrifice, which Catholics proclaim in every Mass. If he’s got a beef with Catholic liturgy or calendar, he needs to say so, not hide behind numerology.
Then
Then, your accusation that Catholics “don’t believe in that First/Chief importance of the gospel” is baseless. The “chief importance” Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 is that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures. The Catholic Church has taught this for 2,000 years. It’s in the Nicene Creed, the Catechism (CCC 613-618), and every Eucharistic celebration. If you are claiming Catholics deny this, you’re either ignorant of Catholic doctrine or willfully misrepresenting it.
Name the teaching, brother—where’s the “doctrine of demons”? You can’t just fling mud and call it an argument.
Third, the claim that “Paul and the first disciples don’t have the same Jesus or gospel” as Catholics is a cheap shot. The Catholic Church traces its teachings to the apostles, including Paul, through unbroken apostolic succession. Paul’s gospel of justification by faith (Rom 3:24-26) is Catholic to the core: we’re saved by grace through faith, not works, but faith works through love (Gal 5:6; CCC 1814-1816). If you’re hung up on sola scriptura or some dispensationalist twist, that’s his innovation, not a Catholic deviation. The first disciples celebrated the Eucharist (1 Cor 11:23-25), baptized for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38), and built a visible Church (Matt 16:18). Sounds pretty Catholic to me.
You failed failed to name a single Catholic teaching that denies Christ’s gospel because you cannot find any, there aren’t any.
The Church has preached Christ crucified and risen since Pentecost, and no amount of numerological smoke or dispensationalist swagger changes that. If you want to keep slinging “doctrines of demons” charges, then bring a real argument or repent for slandering Christ’s Body. Until then, you are just shouting into the wind.
I asked for a specific Catholic teaching that denies Christ’s gospel, and instead, you got a cryptic word salad about Passover dates and a smug “Satan deceives the whole world” jab
.....
Passover isn’t cryptic.
It’s Scriptural
That’s your Catholic religion’s problem
That’s the very first/Chief part of the Gospel Paul teaches.
Christ, the Passover Lamb, died for our sins, in accordance with the scriptures.
That means on Passover.
Not false goddess good Friday in accordance with Daniel’s 4th Beast and the Antichrist Papacy/Pope..
Do you know what day Passover was this year?
Hint:
It never changes
It’s always the 14th Day of His 1st month.
Do you know if Old Covenant Israel missed Passover in that first month, they could keep it on the 14th Day of His 2nd month?
The 14th Day isn’t cryptic. It’s Biblical.
And the 3rd Day from Passover is also not cryptic.
It’s First Fruits in the First month, and it happens to be the first day of the week manna fell in the 2nd month.
It’s just not observed by your Catholic religion because your religion changed times and law that false goddess frigg day is more important than the actual Day Christ died in accordance with the scriptures. (Try telling Islam and Judaism they’re following you to their own blindness, they’ll appreciate the heads up /s)
Do you know what Roman Catholic day was blessed to host Passover this year?
The Day that commemorates the Lamb dying for our sins?
I’ll give you a little hint:
It was the day your Catholic religion was commemorating your version of Jesus entering Jerusalem.
That’s what changing times and laws, like Daniel the prophet predicted, does to the whole world.
Again.
There isn’t any Truth in Roman Catholic religion.
It’s Counterfeits, lies, doctrines of demons used as a vessel to deceive.
Your holy days are the cryptic counterfeits that have Zero to do with the Way,Truth and Life.
That includes the 3 days you commemorate for His birth, circumcision and presentation in the temple, AND the three days you commemorate the death,burial and resurrection.
The bible, His Creation, and His own appointments can reveal your version as counterfeit. As ‘Anti’, as substitute, as false.
And your version of Mary isn’t any more biblical as your version of Christ.
And all we have to do is wait for the demon possessed swine years to end.
And wait till the world finds out they haven’t just been celebrating Christ’s birth, death and resurrection wrong thanks to Satan, the Church has been celebrating its own birth wrong. (Again, Judaism isn’t going to appreciate that tidbit neither because they’ve again been following you)
But the blind can’t see.
The deaf can’t hear.
It’s baked into the leavened cake so to speak.
I don’t expect you to buy any of this.
Gold refined by fire isn’t available at the Roman Catholic religion market place.
There’s an end time Beast that resembles a Lamb but speaks as a Dragon.
Nice to know there’s precedent for falsehoods and deceits and counterfeits for the end times in the actual scriptures.
It’s not cryptic.
It’s a little uncomfortable for religions, though.
I stand by my claim they are separate because they are.
The Law was spoken by God Deut. 4:12,13
Written by God with the finger of God Ex 24:12
Written in stone Deut. 10:1 - 4
Placed in the Ark Deut. 10:5
Called the Law of God Psa. 1:2 119:1
lasts forever Ps. 111:7,8
A perfect law Ps. 19:7
POINTS OUT SIN 1 John 3:4
Not abolished by Christ Matt 5:17
Is holy, just and good Romans 7:12
You and metmom have NO excuse. You do not wish to bend the knee and follow Gods COMMANDS. You have the knowledge but choose to willingly ignore Him.
BIpolarBob “I stand by my claim accusing metmom of mistruths”
Your Adventist doublespeak, stubbornly insisting that the Law and Old Covenant are separate revelations while accusing me of rebellion against God’s commands, is a desperate attempt to cling to Ellen G. White’s heretical distortions. Your laundry list of proof-texts—ripped out of context to prop up your Sabbath idolatry—crumbles under biblical scrutiny and exposes the demonic deception at the heart of Seventh-day Adventism.
You throw a barrage of verses to claim the Law (the Ten Commandments, with your Sabbath obsession front and center) is a separate, eternal revelation from the Old Covenant. Let’s shred your cherry-picked citations one by one, showing how they don’t support your case:
Deuteronomy 4:12-13: “The Lord spoke to you… declaring his covenant, the Ten Commandments.” You say the Law was spoken by God, implying it’s distinct. Wrong. The verse explicitly calls the Ten Commandments God’s covenant, tying them directly to the Sinai covenant, not a standalone revelation. You’re ignoring the text’s plain meaning.
Exodus 24:12: God gives Moses “tablets of stone with the law and commands.” This describes the Ten Commandments as part of the covenantal instructions (24:3-8), not a separate entity. The context is the Sinai covenant’s ratification, not a universal Law revelation.
Deuteronomy 10:1-4: The tablets are rewritten and placed in the Ark (10:5). Again, this is within the covenant God made with Israel (10:2: “the words of the covenant”). The Ark housed the covenant’s terms, not a distinct “Law of God.” Your separation is baseless.
Psalm 1:2, 119:1: These praise God’s law as blessed. Fine, but they refer to the Torah—Israel’s covenantal law, not just the Ten Commandments. Psalm 119:32 mentions “commands,” including ceremonial laws. You’re projecting your Sabbath focus onto broad poetic praise.
Psalm 111:7-8: God’s precepts are “established forever.” In context, this refers to God’s covenant faithfulness (111:5), not the literal Ten Commandments enduring eternally. Jesus fulfills the Law (Matthew 5:17), and Hebrews 8:13 declares the Old Covenant obsolete. Your “forever” claim ignores the New Covenant.
Psalm 19:7: “The law of the Lord is perfect.” Yes, the Torah guides Israel, but it’s fulfilled in Christ (Romans 10:4). The psalm doesn’t isolate the Ten Commandments as eternal apart from the covenant.
1 John 3:4: “Sin is lawlessness.” True, but this doesn’t specify the Ten Commandments. The New Testament defines sin broadly—unbelief (John 16:9), unrighteousness (1 John 5:17)—not just Sabbath-breaking. You’re forcing your agenda onto the text.
Matthew 5:17: Jesus says, “I have not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.” Exactly—He fulfills it, completing its purpose (Galatians 3:24-25). The Law points to Him, not to an eternal Saturday mandate. You misread “fulfill” as “perpetuate.”
Romans 7:12: “The law is holy, just, and good.” Paul affirms the Law’s divine origin but says it reveals sin, not salvation (7:7-14). In 7:4-6, he says believers are “released from the law” to serve in the Spirit. Your selective quoting ignores the New Covenant’s freedom.
Your verses don’t prove the Law is separate from the Old Covenant—they confirm the Ten Commandments are its core (Deuteronomy 4:13, 5:1-3). The Sinai covenant, including the Law, was given to Israel, not all humanity (Exodus 19:3-6). Your claim of a distinct “Law of God” is a White-inspired fantasy, not Scripture.
Bipolarbob, Your accusation that I “refuse to bend the knee” to God’s commands stems from Adventism’s satanic deception, built on Ellen G. White’s false prophecies and heretical doctrines.
Ellen G. White’s Lies: White’s visions, treated as divine (SDA Belief #18), fail Deuteronomy 18:22:
1. 1856 Failure: She predicted some 1856 conference attendees would see Christ’s return (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 1, p. 131-132). All died. False.
2. Shut Door Heresy: She claimed salvation closed in 1844 (A Word to the Little Flock, 1847, p. 14), then backtracked. This misled thousands.
3. 1845 Flop: White foresaw Christ’s return in June 1845 (Lucinda Burdick, 1874 letter). Another lie. White’s false prophecies, presented as God’s voice, make her a demonic fraud, not a prophetess.
Besides those FAILED PROPHECIES, you have the non Christian Adventist beliefs:
Investigative Judgment Blasphemy: Your Law-Covenant split ties to White’s 1844 Investigative Judgment, claiming Christ began judging believers in the heavenly sanctuary (The Great Controversy, p. 421-422). This denies Hebrews 9:12: “He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood.” White’s doctrine, born to salvage Miller’s 1844 failure, perverts Christ’s atonement (John 19:30), a satanic assault on the Gospel.
Sabbath Idolatry: Adventism’s salvific Sabbath-keeping, with a future Sunday law as the mark of the beast (The Great Controversy, p. 605-612), lacks biblical support. Colossians 2:16-17 and Romans 14:5-6 free Christians from such legalism. Your obsession with Saturday is a Judaizing heresy (Galatians 5:4), exalting a ritual over Christ’s grace (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Adventism is a demonic cult, enslaving you to White’s lies and a works-based gospel. Your Law-Covenant split is a White-inspired trick to justify Sabbath legalism, not a biblical truth.
Bipolar, your claim that the Law and Old Covenant are separate is a demonic deception, rooted in Ellen G. White’s false prophecies and Adventism’s cultish legalism. Your proof-texts—Deuteronomy 4:13, Exodus 24:12, and others—prove the Law is the covenant, not a distinct revelation. The Adventist Sabbath obsession lacks New Testament support, and your accusation that I defy God is a slanderous projection of Adventism own falseness. Adventism’s evils—White’s lies (1856, 1844, 1845), Investigative Judgment blasphemy—mark it as a satanic trap, not Christ’s truth.
Produce one verse explicitly separating the Ten Commandments from the Sinai covenant or mandating Saturday worship for Christians. You can’t, because your theology is White’s garbage, not Scripture. The Catholic Church, Christ’s bride (Ephesians 5:25-27), proclaims salvation through Christ, not a day.
You still haven’t answered the challenge: name one Catholic teaching that denies Christ’s gospel. Instead, you’re obsessed with Passover dates and throwing around “antichrist pope” and “false goddess Frigg” conspiracies. That’s not an argument—it’s a tantrum.
Your fixation on the “14th day” of Passover (Lev 23:5) misses the point. The gospel isn’t about nailing Christ’s death to a Jewish calendar slot—it’s that He died for our sins and rose again (1 Cor 15:3-4). Catholics proclaim Christ as the Passover Lamb (John 1:29; 1 Cor 5:7) every Mass. Your numerology doesn’t prove we deny this; it just shows you’re dodging the question.
I repeat: you are dodging the question
You claim Catholics “changed times and laws” (Dan 7:25) by not following the Jewish calendar. The early Church, led by the apostles, established Christian worship apart from Old Covenant feasts (Acts 15; Col 2:16-17). Sunday celebrates the Resurrection (Acts 20:7), not a pagan plot. Our liturgical year—Christmas, Lent, Easter—centers on Christ’s life and victory. If that’s “counterfeit,” you’re calling the apostles liars.
Passover was April 12 this year. You say it fell on Palm Sunday, not Good Friday, and act like that’s a gotcha. It’s not. The Christian calendar doesn’t always align with the Jewish one, but we celebrate Christ’s death and resurrection in the Paschal Triduum. Your hint about “commemorating Jesus entering Jerusalem” on Passover is flat-out wrong—Good Friday is about the Cross. Get your facts straight.
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