The Heresy of Dual-Covenant Theology

I have just finished reading “The Old Covenant: Revoked or Not Revoked?” by Dr. Robert Sungenis. It is a study debunking the notion, now regnant in liberal theological circles, that the Old Covenant still stands side-by-side with the New Covenant.

According to this novelty, in essence, God’s “A Plan” and God’s “B Plan” are both currently pleasing to Him and both fully in effect.

Opposed to this, the Catholic Faith teaches that the Old Law — itself good, holy, and of divine origin — was a preparation for the New, and that the New Law superceded and fulfilled the Old.

Indeed, as Dr. Sungenis shows, Pope John Paul II affirmed the traditional teaching in a not-much-quoted passage of Redemptoris Mater: “Christ fulfills the divine promise and supersedes the old law.”

Years ago, I made an effort at debunking this vogue theology in an article on the Epistle to the Hebrews: A Better Testament. Dr. Sungenis quotes from Hebrews, but he does not limit himself to this, as the pilfered quotations below adequately show.

The following is a series of scriptural, patristic, and magisterial citations from “The Old Covenant: Revoked or Not Revoked?“:

Hebrews 7:18: “On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness…”;

Hebrews 10:9: “Then he says, ‘Behold, I come to do your will.’ He takes away the first [covenant] to establish the second [covenant]…”;

2 Corinthians 3:14: “For to this day when they [the Jews] read the Old Covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away”;

Hebrews 8:7: “For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another”;

Colossians 2:14: “Having canceled the written code, with its decrees, that was against us and stood opposed to us; He took it away nailing it to the cross”;

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis, para. 29: “…the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished…but on the gibbet of His death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross”;

The Catechism of the Council of Trent: “…the people, aware of the abrogation of the Mosaic Law…”;

Council of Florence: “that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law…although they were suited to the divine worship at that time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began”;

Council of Trent: “but not even the Jews by the very letter of the law of Moses were able to be liberated or to rise therefrom”;

Cardinal Ratzinger: “Thus the Sinai [Mosaic] Covenant is indeed superseded” (Many Religions – One Covenant, p. 70).

St. John Chrysostom: “Yet surely Paul’s object everywhere is to annul this Law….And with much reason; for it was through a fear and a horror of this that the Jews obstinately opposed grace” (Homily on Romans, 6:12); “And so while no one annuls a man’s covenant, the covenant of God after four hundred and thirty years is annulled; for if not that covenant but another instead of it bestows what is promised, then is it set aside, which is most unreasonable” (Homily on Galatians, Ch 3);

St. Augustine: “Instead of the grace of the law which has passed away, we have received the grace of the gospel which is abiding; and instead of the shadows and types of the old dispensation, the truth has come by Jesus Christ. Jeremiah also prophesied thus in God’s name: ‘Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah…’ Observe what the prophet says, not to Gentiles, who had not been partakers in any former covenant, but to the Jewish nation. He who has given them the law by Moses, promises in place of it the New Covenant of the gospel, that they might no longer live in the oldness of the letter, but in the newness of the spirit” (Letters, 74, 4);

Justin Martyr: Now, law placed against law has abrogated that which is before it, and a covenant which comes after in like manner has put an end to the previous one; and an eternal and final law – namely, Christ – has been given to us, and the covenant is trustworthy…Have you not read…by Jeremiah, concerning this same new covenant, He thus speaks: ‘Behold, the days come,’ says the Lord, ‘that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah…’” (Dialogue with Trypho, Ch 11).

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

We Catholics see the new covenant, established through Jesus’ sacrifice (Luke 22:20, Hebrews 8:6–13), as fulfilling the promises made to Israel and Judah, just as you mentioned. Through Christ, the Church becomes the new Israel, encompassing both Jews and Gentiles who believe in Him (Galatians 3:28–29, Romans 9:6–8). We agree that Gentiles are ‘grafted in’ to this covenant, as St. Paul beautifully describes in Romans 11:17–24, sharing in the rich root of God’s people.

God’s covenant with Israel is fulfilled in Christ, and the Church is now the spiritual heir of those promises.

We believe God’s plan includes a mystery regarding Israel’s ultimate reconciliation (Romans 11:25–26), and we pray for the salvation of all, including the Jewish people, through faith in Jesus. However, we don’t typically expect a distinct political or national role for Israel in the eschaton, nor do we anticipate a literal millennial reign where Israel leads the world, as the dispensationalist views suggest. Instead, we look to the second coming of Christ, when all things are made new in the heavenly Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1–4), and all the saved—Jew and Gentile—share in God’s eternal kingdom.

we see the new covenant in Jesus as fulfilling God’s promises to Israel and Judah (Hebrews 8:8–13), with the Church—Jews and Gentiles united in Christ—as the new Israel (Galatians 3:28–29). We agree Gentiles are grafted into God’s people (Romans 11:17–24), and we trust God’s plan includes a mysterious inclusion of the Jewish people in salvation (Romans 11:25–26). But our view of the end times differs a bit. Instead of a literal 1,000-year reign where national Israel rules the world after the tribulation, Catholic teaching focuses on Christ’s second coming, when He establishes the new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21:1–4). In this eternal kingdom, all the saved—Jew and Gentile—share in God’s glory, with no distinct group ruling over others.

God’s promises to Israel are fulfilled in Christ, and we all share equally in His eternal kingdom.

Bipolar SDA Bob “ Law is separate from the Old Covenant. They are two different revelations with two different purposes. They are certainly not synonymous. Why confuse people with mistruths?”

Your Adventist claim that the Law and the Old Covenant are entirely separate revelations with distinct purposes is a theological sleight-of-hand that doesn’t survive a shred of biblical scrutiny. It’s a convenient way to prop up your Sabbath obsession while dodging the New Covenant’s clear teaching.

You accuse metmom of spreading “mistruths” and confusing people, but your argument is the real distortion, built on Adventist assumptions rather than Scripture.

The The Law and the Old Covenant are Inseparable in Scriptures

Your assertion that the Law (presumably the Ten Commandments, with the Sabbath as your focus) is a separate revelation from the Old Covenant is flat-out unbiblical. The Bible consistently ties the Law to the covenant God made with Israel at Sinai.

Exodus 19-24 describes the Sinai covenant, where God gives the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) as its core terms. Deuteronomy 4:13 explicitly states, “He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and wrote on two stone tablets.” The Law isn’t a standalone revelation; it’s the heart of the Old Covenant, given to Israel as a covenantal obligation (Deuteronomy 5:1-3). Your attempt to divorce them is a fabrication.

Galatians 3:19 says the Law was “added because of transgressions until the Seed [Christ] should come.” It was a temporary guardian (Galatians 3:24-25), tied to the covenant with Israel, not a universal, eternal code. The Old Covenant’s purpose was to prepare God’s people for the Messiah, not to establish a separate “Law” revelation for all time. You’re inventing a distinction Scripture doesn’t support.

Bipolar SDA Bob “ Law is separate from the Old Covenant. They are two different revelations with two different purposes. They are certainly not synonymous. Why confuse people with mistruths?”

Let’s not pretend—this “Law vs. Covenant” split is a backdoor to elevate the seventh-day Sabbath as eternally binding, separate from the Old Covenant’s ceremonial laws. You’re trying to dodge the fact that the Sabbath’s observance is tied to Israel’s covenant, not a universal mandate.

The Sabbath commandment (Exodus 20:8-11) is explicitly covenantal, linked to God’s rest in creation but formalized for Israel (Exodus 31:16-17: “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant”). Where’s the pre-Sinai command for all humanity to keep it? Genesis 2:2-3 mentions God’s rest, but no mandate for weekly observance appears until Exodus 16:23-29. Your universal Sabbath claim is an assumption, not a revelation.

The New Testament never commands Christians to keep the seventh-day Sabbath. Colossians 2:16-17 calls Sabbaths “shadows” of Christ, the reality. Romans 14:5-6 allows freedom in worship days. Hebrews 8:6-13 declares the Old Covenant obsolete, replaced by the New Covenant in Christ. If the Law were a separate revelation, why does Scripture tie its fulfillment to Christ’s work (Matthew 5:17)? Your Sabbath-centric view ignores this.

Catholics honor the Sabbath’s principle—rest and worship—through Sunday, the Lord’s Day, celebrating Christ’s resurrection (CCC 2174-2176). This isn’t confusion; it’s fidelity to the New Covenant, rooted in apostolic practice (Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2). You’re the one confusing people by clinging to a covenantal ritual Christ fulfilled.

Your argument smells of White’s Great Controversy, which pits the “eternal” Ten Commandments against a supposedly corrupt Catholic system. Show me one verse explicitly stating the Ten Commandments are a separate revelation from the Sinai covenant. You can’t, because it’s an Adventist invention, not God’s Word.

By separating them, you’re creating a false dichotomy to justify legalism. If the Law is a standalone revelation, why does Paul say it was temporary (Galatians 3:25)? Why does Hebrews 7:12 speak of a “change in the law” with Christ’s priesthood? Your theology unravels under biblical examination.

Your accusation that Catholicism’s supposed “supersessionism” is propped up by a dispensationalist lens that doesn’t hold up under biblical scrutiny.

You label Catholic theology as “supersessionism” or “replacement theology,” implying we wrongly believe the Church replaces Israel. That’s a caricature. Catholic theology teaches that the new covenant in Christ fulfills—not abolishes—God’s promises to Israel. The Church is the new Israel, not a replacement but a continuation and expansion of God’s people, incorporating both Jews and Gentiles through faith in Jesus (Galatians 3:28–29). Romans 9:6–8 clarifies that “not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.” The true Israel is defined by faith, not ethnicity alone.

The old covenant, with its Mosaic law, was preparatory for the Messiah (Galatians 3:24). Jesus Himself said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them” (Matthew 5:17). Hebrews 8:6–13 explicitly states that the new covenant, mediated by Christ, surpasses the old, rendering it “obsolete” (v. 13) because Christ’s sacrifice fulfills its purpose (Hebrews 10:9–10). The Church, as Christ’s body, inherits the promises made to Abraham (Galatians 3:16, 29), not by displacing Israel but by realizing God’s plan to bless all nations through Abraham’s seed (Genesis 12:3).

Your charge of “heresy” in dual covenant theology is a red herring—Catholicism rejects dual covenant theology outright. We hold that salvation comes only through Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12), and all, including Jews, are called to faith in Him (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 839–840). Our view isn’t replacement but fulfillment, rooted in the biblical reality that Christ is the culmination of God’s covenant with Israel.

Your insistence on a literal 1,000-year reign (Revelation 20:4) and citations of Daniel 7:9, 18, 22, 27; Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30; and 1 Corinthians 6:2–3 reflect a premillennialist interpretation that assumes Christ will return to establish an earthly kingdom led by Israel. This is a dispensationalist invention, not a biblical necessity, and it’s riddled with problems.

Revelation 20:4–6: The “thousand years” is symbolic, not literal. Revelation is apocalyptic literature, full of numbers (7, 12, 144,000) that signify theological truths, not a calendar. The “thousand years” represents the present age of the Church, where Christ reigns through His saints (those “beheaded” for their faith, v. 4) in the spiritual battle against evil. This aligns with amillennialism, the Catholic view, which sees the millennium as the Church’s mission until Christ’s second coming (CCC 676). A literal 1,000-year Jewish-led kingdom contradicts Revelation 21:1–4, where the new heaven and new earth follow immediately after Satan’s defeat, with no interim earthly reign.

Daniel 7:9, 18, 22, 27: These verses describe the “Ancient of Days” and the “saints of the Most High” receiving an everlasting kingdom. Nothing here demands a literal 1,000-year Jewish rule. The “saints” are all God’s faithful, Jew and Gentile, united in Christ (1 Peter 2:9). The kingdom is eternal, not temporary, and fulfilled in Christ’s eternal reign (Hebrews 12:28).

Matthew 19:28 and Luke 22:30: Jesus tells the apostles they will “sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” This points to the apostles’ role in the Church, the new Israel, governing through their teaching and authority (Acts 1:8; Ephesians 2:20). It’s not about a future Jewish state but the spiritual reign of Christ’s kingdom, already inaugurated (Luke 17:21).

1 Corinthians 6:2–3: Paul says the saints will “judge the world” and “angels.” This refers to the eschatological judgment at Christ’s return (Matthew 25:31–46), not a millennial Jewish government. The saints— all believers—share in Christ’s victory, not a nationalist hierarchy.

Your literalism ignores the symbolic nature of apocalyptic texts and imposes a modern dispensationalist framework foreign to the early Church. The Church Fathers, like Augustine (City of God, Book 20), rejected chiliasm (literal millenarianism) as a misinterpretation. Your view also risks diminishing Christ’s finished work by postponing His full kingship to a future earthly phase, whereas Scripture proclaims He reigns now (Ephesians 1:20–22; Colossians 1:13).

Your entire critique hinges on dispensationalism, a 19th-century innovation by John Nelson Darby, not apostolic teaching. It artificially separates Israel and the Church, creating a dual-track salvation history that Scripture doesn’t support. Ephesians 2:14–16 declares that Christ “has broken down the dividing wall of hostility… making one new man out of the two.” There’s one people of God, not two parallel covenants.
Your cited texts don’t prove a literal Jewish-led millennium. They describe Christ’s eternal reign, already begun (Luke 1:32–33) and consummated at His return. Dispensationalism’s obsession with a future Jewish kingdom distorts the gospel’s universality and risks Judaizing Christianity by prioritizing ethnicity over faith (Galatians 3:8–9).

The Church doesn’t replace Israel—it fulfills God’s plan to unite all in Christ (Ephesians 1:10). Revelation 20:4 isn’t a Jewish utopia; it’s the Church’s triumph in Christ until He returns.
If you’re serious about truth, drop the dispensationalist lens and read Romans 11, Hebrews 8, and Revelation 21 with fresh eyes. The Catechism (674–677, 839–840) lays it out clearly. Your accusations don’t stick

One of the many flaws in your Seventh Day Adventist bob Christian cult is the SDA belief called the Investigative Judgement.

The SDA doctrine of the Investigative Judgment is unbiblical, contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture on Christ’s completed atonement, and relies on Ellen G. White’s extrabiblical visions rather than what Jesus taught the Apostles.

The Investigative Judgment teaches that in 1844, Jesus moved from the heavenly Holy Place to the Holy of Holies to begin a pre-advent judgment, reviewing the records of all professed believers to determine who is worthy of salvation. This is based on White’s interpretation of Daniel 8:14 (“For 2300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary shall be restored”) as 2300 years, starting from 457 BC (Artaxerxes’ decree) and ending in 1844.

“In 1844 our High Priest entered the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary, to begin the work of the investigative judgment” (The Great Controversy, p. 546).
“The judgment is now passing in the sanctuary above. For many years this work has been in progress. Soon—none know how soon—it will pass to the cases of the living” (The Great Controversy, p. 556).

The reason for this wacky belief is the William Miller’s failed prediction of Christ’s return in 1844, White’s visions reframed the event as Jesus entering the heavenly Holy of Holies to judge believers’ works, cleansing the sanctuary (Daniel 8:14). SDAs apply the “day-year principle” (from Numbers 14:34) to interpret the 2300 days as years, claiming this judgment is essential to salvation (SDA Fundamental Belief #24).

The Investigative Judgment contradicts Scripture’s clear teaching on Christ’s completed atonement, the timing of His heavenly ministry, and the nature of judgment.

SDA Claim: Jesus’ atonement was incomplete until 1844, when He began the Investigative Judgment in the heavenly Holy of Holies, reviewing believers’ lives to apply atonement (The Great Controversy, p. 546).

And in contrast the Bible says

John 19:30: Jesus declared, “It is finished,” signaling the completion of His atoning work on the cross. The Greek tetelestai (“finished”) denotes a fully accomplished task, leaving no additional phase like 1844

Hebrews 9:11–12: “Christ… entered once for all into the Holy Place, not with the blood of goats and calves but with his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.” This occurred at His ascension (c. 33 AD), not 1844. The term “Holy Place” (Greek ta hagia) refers to the entire heavenly sanctuary, including the Holy of Holies, fulfilling the Day of Atonement (Leviticus 16) in one act.

Hebrews 10:10–14: “By a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.” Christ’s sacrifice was sufficient, with no need for a later judgment phase to determine salvation. His ongoing intercession (Hebrews 7:25) applies this redemption, not a new review starting in 1844.

Romans 5:1–2: “Since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Believers have assurance of salvation now, not pending a heavenly review

SDA Claim: The “2300 evenings and mornings” (Daniel 8:14) are 2300 years (457 BC–1844 AD), culminating in Jesus cleansing the heavenly sanctuary through the Investigative Judgment (The Great Controversy, p. 409).

And the Bible rejects this

Context of Daniel 8: The vision describes a ram (Medo-Persia), a goat (Greece), and a “little horn” (8:9) from one of Greece’s four kingdoms (8:22–23, Seleucid Empire). Gabriel explains this as fulfilled in the “latter time of their kingdom” (8:23–25), pointing to Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175–164 BC), who desecrated the Jerusalem temple with a Zeus altar (167 BC, 1 Maccabees 1:54) and halted sacrifices for ~1150 days (2300 evenings and mornings, 8:14), until the temple’s rededication (164 BC, 1 Maccabees 4:52).

The “sanctuary” is the Jerusalem temple, restored by the Maccabees.

1 Maccabees 1:54 documents Antiochus’s altar to Zeus (167 BC), halting sacrifices until the temple’s rededication (164 BC, 1 Maccabees 4:52), roughly 1150 days. Josephus (Antiquities, 10:11:7) confirms Daniel 8’s fulfillment in Antiochus. The SDA’s 2300-year interpretation ignores this historical context.

The SDA’s “day-year principle” (from Numbers 14:34, context-specific) is misapplied to Daniel 8:14. The text’s “evenings and mornings” (ereb-boqer, Genesis 1:5) denotes literal days, not years, unlike Daniel 9’s “weeks” (shabuim, Leviticus 25:8). No New Testament text applies day-year to Daniel 8.

The SDA’s 2300-year timeline is speculative, lacking biblical support. Daniel 8:14’s fulfillment in Antiochus (167–164 BC) is confirmed by history (1 Maccabees, Josephus) and scholars (e.g., John J. Collins, Daniel, 1993), while the 1844 date has no scriptural or historical basis.

SDA Claim: Jesus ministered in the heavenly Holy Place until 1844, then entered the Holy of Holies for the Investigative Judgment, based on a two-compartment sanctuary (Hebrews 8–9).

Yet the Bible says

Hebrews 9:24–26: “Christ has entered… heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf… once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin.” Jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary at His ascension, not 1844, fulfilling both Holy Place and Holy of Holies roles (Hebrews 8:1–2).

Revelation 14:7: The SDA links “the hour of his judgment” to 1844, but Revelation’s context is the end times, not a specific historical date. No New Testament text mentions 1844.

The SDA’s two-phase ministry (Holy Place pre-1844, Holy of Holies post-1844) imposes an earthly tabernacle model (Exodus 25–26) on heaven, ignoring Hebrews 8:5’s typological nature. Christ’s entry was complete at the ascension

You label Catholic theology as “supersessionism” or “replacement theology,” implying we wrongly believe the Church replaces Israel. ...Your charge of “heresy” in dual covenant theology is a red herring—Catholicism rejects dual covenant theology outright.

No, I did not, but said "supersessionism/replacement theology, at least one version of it," since there are different degrees of it, and thus rather than charging Rome with actually teaching full replacement theology, much less or dual covenant theology, my very brief post referred to Rome's rejection of a future literal 1,000 reign of the Lord Jesus in His earthly kingdom, in which the Jews will worship the Lord in Jerusalem. Which can be seen as affecting its modern reluctant to affirm the modern state of Israel. At the least.

Yet, consistent with Roman Catholicism affirmation of a future conversion of all Jews (despite its rejection of the earthly kingdom reign in which Ezekiel and Zechariah in particular write so much about), what is left of the natural branches,

"shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zechariah 12:10)

And thus they, as believers will willingly worship the Lord, who will rule all nations with a rod of iron, meaning those who survived the great tribulation, for not all perish therein, (Matthew 24:20) yet of these are those who in their heart are rebellious. (cf. Luke 19:14)

Scripture clearly teaches that,

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (Romans 11:25-27)

Thus Rev. 7:14 speaks of a remnant of these in the tribulation period, and to which other prophecies relate:

And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God. And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: (Ezekiel 20:34-37)

And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers. And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord God. (Ezekiel 20:42-44)

The nations that persecute the remnant of Jews who turn to Christ are led by the devil, and which God protects by providing a place in the wilderness for 3.5 years, while in the end the Lord will destroy these persecuting peoples.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zechariah 12:9-10) Thus,

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (Zechariah 14:16-19)

While Roman Catholicism affirms a final trial and recognition by all Israel when the the full number of the Gentiles has entered in, [Rom 11:12, 20-26] it is Christ's earthly kingdom under the name of millenarianism is what it rejects. Which few RCs will be part of anyway.

Your literalism ignores the symbolic nature of apocalyptic texts and imposes a modern dispensationalist framework foreign to the early Church.

The early Church is that of the NT, which looked for the soon establishment of Christ's earthly kingdom.

The Church Fathers, like Augustine (City of God, Book 20), rejected chiliasm (literal millenarianism) as a misinterpretation.

in spite of their "defence by prominent Fathers of the early Church," for what they are worth, versus "The most powerful adversary of millenarianism was Origen of Alexandria. In view of the Neo-Platonism on which his doctrines were founded and of his spiritual-allegorical method of explaining the Holy Scripture, he could not side with the millenarians." - https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10307a.htm

Absurd. Scripture speak voluminously of the further earthly kingdom of Christ, of which this is part, and cannot be all spiritualized away, of which extensive documentation can be provided. However this is summer, with lots to due, and time is more valuable than to spend much on this issue or anything else

Your reply, while clarifying that you didn’t directly accuse Catholicism of full-blown supersessionism or dual covenant theology, still misfires badly. You hedge by saying “at least one version” of supersessionism, then pivot to accusing the Church of rejecting a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ, which you claim leads to a failure to affirm modern Israel. Your argument is a dispensationalist house of cards—built on shaky exegesis, a 19th-century novelty, and a misunderstanding of Catholic theology.

1. Supersessionism: A Mischaracterized Catholic Position

You suggest Catholicism embraces a problematic “version” of supersessionism, implying we wrongly replace Israel with the Church. Wrong. Catholic theology teaches fulfillment, not replacement. The new covenant in Christ (Hebrews 8:6–13) fulfills God’s promises to Israel, extending them to all nations through faith (Galatians 3:8–9, 29). Romans 9:6–8 clarifies: “Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.” The Church, comprising believing Jews and Gentiles, is the new Israel—not a rejection of God’s people but their expansion (Ephesians 2:14–16). Your “supersessionism” label is a caricature, ignoring the Catechism’s affirmation of the Jewish people’s enduring role in salvation history (CCC 839–840).

Your real issue seems to be our rejection of your dispensationalist fantasy—a Jewish-led millennial kingdom. That’s not supersessionism; it’s fidelity to Scripture’s broader witness, which you cherry-pick to fit your narrative. More on that below.

2.
The Literal 1,000-Year Reign: A Dispensationalist Misstep

You insist the Catholic rejection of a literal 1,000-year reign (Revelation 20:4) is an error, tying it to prophecies in Ezekiel, Zechariah, and other texts about a Jewish kingdom in Jerusalem. This is dispensationalist eisegesis—reading your preconceptions into Scripture— not sound exegesis. Let’s tackle your citations:

Revelation 20:4–6: You treat the “thousand years” as a literal future kingdom where Jews worship in Jerusalem. Revelation’s apocalyptic genre uses symbolic numbers (7 seals, 12 tribes, 144,000) to convey theological truths, not a literal timeline. The “thousand years” symbolizes the Church age, where Christ reigns through His saints (the “beheaded” martyrs, v. 4) until His second coming (CCC 676). Revelation 21:1–4 follows with the new heaven and new earth, no interim Jewish kingdom. Your literalism ignores the text’s symbolic nature and contradicts the early Church’s amillennial consensus (e.g., Augustine, City of God, Book 20).

Ezekiel 20:34–44: You cite this as evidence of a future regathering of Jews to a literal Israel. Ezekiel’s prophecy, written during the Babylonian exile, foretells Israel’s restoration post-exile (fulfilled in Ezra 1–2). Its spiritual fulfillment is in Christ and the Church, where God gathers His people through the new covenant (John 11:52; Acts 2:1–4). The “bond of the covenant” (v. 37) is Christ’s sacrifice (Hebrews 9:15), not a future Jewish state. Your reading imposes a dispensationalist timeline alien to the text.

Zechariah 12:9–10, 14:16–19: You claim these depict a future where Jews mourn for Christ and nations worship in Jerusalem under a Jewish-led kingdom. Zechariah’s imagery points to Christ’s first coming—His piercing (John 19:37 cites Zechariah 12:10) and the outpouring of grace (Pentecost, Acts 2). The “feast of tabernacles” (Zechariah 14:16) symbolizes the universal worship of God through Christ’s Church, not a literal Jerusalem-centric reign. Your interpretation ignores the New Testament’s fulfillment of these prophecies in the gospel’s spread (Matthew 28:19–20).

Romans 11:25–27: You correctly note Catholicism affirms a future inclusion of Jews (“all Israel shall be saved”), but you twist this into a Jewish millennial kingdom. Paul’s “mystery” likely refers to a large-scale conversion of Jews to Christ before His return or the full inclusion of God’s elect, Jew and Gentile (CCC 674). Nothing in Romans 11 demands a literal kingdom or Jewish rule. Your addition of a geopolitical layer is baseless.

Matthew 24:20, Luke 19:14: These don’t support your case. Matthew 24:20 warns of tribulation, fulfilled in Jerusalem’s destruction (70 AD) and typifying future trials. Luke 19:14 (the parable of the nobleman) condemns rebellion against Christ, not a blueprint for a Jewish kingdom. You’re stretching.

Your insistence on a literal millennium contradicts Scripture’s emphasis on Christ’s eternal reign (Hebrews 12:28; Revelation 22:5). Dispensationalism’s temporary Jewish kingdom diminishes Christ’s finished work, postponing His full kingship to a future phase. Colossians 1:13 declares we’re already in His kingdom. Why relegate Him to a 1,000-year waiting room?

3. Modern Israel:

You claim Catholicism’s rejection of a literal millennium causes “reluctance to affirm the modern state of Israel.” This is a non-sequitur. The Church distinguishes between biblical Israel (God’s covenant people) and the modern state of Israel (a 1948 political entity). Scripture nowhere prophesies a restored Jewish state as a prerequisite for eschatology. Old Testament land promises (e.g., Ezekiel 20:42) were fulfilled post-exile (Nehemiah 7) and spiritually in Christ, whose kingdom is “not of this world” (John 18:36).

The Church prays for peace in the Holy Land and honors the Jewish people’s historical connection (CCC 839), but tying modern Israel to biblical prophecy is a dispensationalist invention, not apostolic teaching. Romans 4:13–16 says Abraham’s heirs inherit the world through faith, not a specific nation-state. Your view risks idolizing geopolitics over Christ’s universal mission.

4. Future Conversion of Jews: You’re Half-Right, but Miss the Point

You acknowledge Catholicism’s belief in a future conversion of Jews, citing Romans 11:25–27 and Zechariah 12:10. We agree: the Church expects a mysterious inclusion of Jews in salvation (CCC 674), likely through faith in Christ. But you erroneously tie this to a Jewish-led millennial kingdom. Zechariah’s “mourning” is fulfilled in Christ’s passion (John 19:37) and may point to future Jewish recognition of Jesus as Messiah. Romans 11 envisions salvation, not political dominance. Your leap to a Jerusalem-based kingdom where Jews rule with a “rod of iron” over rebellious nations (Zechariah 14:16–19) is pure dispensationalist fan fiction, not Scripture’s intent.

Your entire argument hinges on dispensationalism, a 19th-century concoction by John Nelson Darby that fractures God’s plan into Israel-Church dualism. This is the real error. Ephesians 2:14–16 proclaims Christ has “made one new man out of the two,” uniting Jew and Gentile. Your obsession with a Jewish kingdom resurrects the “dividing wall” Christ demolished. Galatians 3:28 obliterates ethnic distinctions in God’s people: “There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Dispensationalism’s literalism misreads apocalyptic texts, ignoring their symbolic depth. The early Church, from Justin Martyr to Augustine, rejected chiliasm (literal millenarianism) as a distortion. Your cited prophets—Ezekiel, Zechariah—point to Christ’s spiritual kingdom, not a Jewish nationalist revival. By prioritizing Israel’s ethnicity over faith, you risk Judaizing the gospel, a heresy Paul condemned (Galatians 1:8–9).

You backpedal on dual covenant theology, admitting you didn’t charge Catholicism with it, but your “supersessionism” jab was a distraction. The real issue is your dispensationalist idol—a literal Jewish millennium—that you demand we accept. Catholicism’s rejection of this isn’t error; it’s fidelity to Christ’s universal kingship (Revelation 11:15). Meanwhile, your vague “at least” qualifier about supersessionism is a cop-out. If you think we err, name the “version” and prove it. Otherwise, it’s just noise.

The New Testament does not depict the early Church anticipating a literal, Jewish-led earthly kingdom, as your dispensationalism assumes. The apostles and early Christians expected Christ’s return (parousia) and the final judgment, not a 1,000-year interim kingdom in Jerusalem. Let’s examine key texts:

Acts 1:6–8: When the disciples ask Jesus, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” (v. 6), they’re still thinking in earthly, nationalistic terms. Jesus rebuffs them: “It is not for you to know times or seasons… But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses” (vv. 7–8). He redirects their focus to the Church’s mission, not a restored Jewish kingdom. This sets the tone for the New Testament: Christ’s kingdom is spiritual and universal, already inaugurated (Luke 17:21).

John 18:36: Jesus declares, “My kingdom is not of this world.” This directly contradicts your vision of a literal, earthly reign. His kingship is heavenly, exercised through the Church (Colossians 1:13)

Matthew 24–25 and Mark 13: Jesus’ eschatological discourses focus on His return, the destruction of Jerusalem (fulfilled in 70 AD), and the final judgment. There’s no hint of a 1,000-year Jewish kingdom. The “Son of Man coming in glory” (Matthew 25:31) ushers in eternal judgment, not a temporary millennium.

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 and 2 Peter 3:10–13: Paul and Peter describe Christ’s return as sudden, cosmic, and final, with believers caught up to meet Him and the world transformed into a “new heaven and new earth.” No mention of an interim earthly kingdom—your dispensationalist addition is nowhere in view.

Revelation 20:4–6: You lean on the “thousand years” here, but Revelation’s apocalyptic symbolism (seals, trumpets, 144,000) demands a non-literal reading. The “millennium” represents the Church age, where Christ reigns through His martyrs and saints until His second coming (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 676). Revelation 21:1–4 follows with the eternal new Jerusalem, not a Jewish-led interlude. Your literalism mangles the text’s genre.

The New Testament Church hoped for Christ’s imminent return (Maranatha, 1 Corinthians 16:22), but this was about His final victory, not a Jewish kingdom. Your claim misreads the apostles’ expectation of a spiritual, eternal reign (Hebrews 12:28) as a dispensationalist political fantasy.

Your assertion that the early Church—meaning the New Testament era and immediate post-apostolic period—expected a literal earthly kingdom is historically false. While some early Christians (e.g., Papias, Justin Martyr) held chiliast (millenarian) views, expecting a temporary earthly reign, this was not the dominant or enduring position. The early Church increasingly rejected such literalism as incompatible with Scripture’s broader witness. Key evidence:

Clement of Rome (c. 96 AD): In 1 Clement, he focuses on Christ’s return and eternal kingdom, with no mention of a literal millennium. His eschatology is amillennial, emphasizing spiritual fulfillment.

Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 AD): In his letters, Ignatius stresses the spiritual nature of Christ’s kingdom, centered on the Eucharist and the Church, not a future Jewish state.

Irenaeus (c. 180 AD): While Irenaeus speculated about a millennium in Against Heresies, he framed it symbolically and subordinated it to Christ’s eternal reign. His views were not normative and were later overshadowed.

Origen (c. 230 AD): Origen explicitly rejected chiliasm, interpreting apocalyptic texts allegorically. He saw the kingdom as spiritual, fulfilled in the Church and consummated at Christ’s return.

Augustine of Hippo (c. 400 AD): In City of God (Book 20), Augustine decisively shaped the Church’s amillennial consensus. He argued the “thousand years” of Revelation 20 symbolizes the Church age, where Christ reigns through His saints. Chiliasm, he warned, was a carnal misreading that diminished Christ’s spiritual kingship. This became the standard Catholic (and much of Protestant) view.

By the 3rd century, chiliasm was marginalized as a minority view, associated with fringe groups like the Montanists. The Council of Ephesus (431 AD) condemned millenarianism as superstitious. Your claim that the early Church universally expected a literal earthly kingdom is a dispensationalist myth, cherry-picking outliers like Papias while ignoring the broader patristic consensus. The New Testament Church and its successors looked to Christ’s eternal reign (Revelation 22:5), not a 1,000-year Jewish stopgap.

Your interpretation stems from dispensationalism, a 19th-century novelty cooked up by John Nelson Darby, not the early Church. Dispensationalism’s core error is its artificial Israel-Church dualism, insisting on a future Jewish kingdom separate from the Church’s mission. This contradicts Ephesians 2:14–16, where Christ “has made one new man out of the two,” uniting Jew and Gentile. Galatians 3:28 obliterates ethnic distinctions: “There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
The early Church knew nothing of your dispensationalist timeline—tribulation, rapture, millennium. They preached Christ’s kingdom as present in the Church (Acts 28:31) and consummated at His return (1 Corinthians 15:23–24). Your “earthly kingdom” obsession is a modern imposition, alien to the apostolic faith. The New Testament’s “soon” (Revelation 22:12) reflects urgency, not a literal timetable for a Jewish regime

Your claim hinges on a literalist reading of apocalyptic texts like Revelation 20, which you assume the New Testament Church shared. This is baseless. Apocalyptic literature (Daniel, Revelation) uses vivid symbolism to convey theological truths, not historical blueprints. The early Church, steeped in Old Testament imagery, understood this. For example:

Daniel 7:13–14: The “Son of Man” receives an eternal kingdom, not a 1,000-year one. The early Church saw this fulfilled in Christ’s ascension (Acts 1:9; Ephesians 1:20–22).

Revelation 11:15: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever.” No temporary Jewish kingdom here—just Christ’s eternal rule.

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