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| 0:00 | · | one of the topics that occasionally |
| 0:02 | · | comes up not only in popular history and |
| 0:05 | · | its Associated spaces but also among |
| 0:07 | · | professional academics historians and |
| 0:10 | · | archaeologists mainly is whether or not |
| 0:12 | · | ancient peoples like the Greeks and the |
| 0:14 | · | Romans or the Babylonians or the various |
| 0:17 | · | Chinese dynasties or other states in |
| 0:19 | · | East Asia or in the Americas among many |
| 0:21 | · | many others ever encountered fossils and |
| 0:25 | · | if they did what exactly they thought |
| 0:28 | · | these things were so in this video we're |
| 0:31 | · | going to be talking about one of these |
| 0:33 | · | supposed encounters with a fossil from |
| 0:35 | · | the ancient world and that is the |
| 0:37 | · | monster of |
| 0:39 | · | Troy so what is this monster of Troy and |
| 0:42 | · | is this thing actually a fossil and if |
| 0:44 | · | it's not then what could it |
| 0:47 | · | be well this like so many other things |
| 0:50 | · | from ancient Greece is a monster slain |
| 0:52 | · | by a hero specifically Heracles or |
| 0:55 | · | Hercules if you want to use the Roman |
| 0:57 | · | version of his name after a year of |
| 0:59 | · | being enslaved to the queen of Lydia |
| 1:02 | · | Heracles journeyed to Troy and when he |
| 1:05 | · | arrives there he finds that the king of |
| 1:07 | · | Troy |
| 1:08 | · | lamdon is in some serious trouble Apollo |
| 1:12 | · | and Poseidon had built the walls of Troy |
| 1:15 | · | and the King was trying to cheat them |
| 1:16 | · | out of payment so naturally Poseidon |
| 1:20 | · | sent a monster to attack the city and |
| 1:22 | · | the surrounding lands and it would only |
| 1:24 | · | be appeased when it had devoured the |
| 1:26 | · | King's Daughter |
| 1:28 | · | hision but this does not happen because |
| 1:32 | · | Heracles agrees to kill the monster in |
| 1:34 | · | exchange for the king's horses which he |
| 1:37 | · | had received from Zeus and Heracles |
| 1:40 | · | successfully kills the monster by |
| 1:42 | · | allowing himself to be swallowed and |
| 1:44 | · | then cutting up the creatures insides |
| 1:46 | · | the king decides to not pay again so |
| 1:49 | · | Heracles raised an Army against him |
| 1:52 | · | defeats the king and then captures Troy |
| 1:55 | · | hision was given in marriage to telmon |
| 1:58 | · | one of Heracles Chief companion ions and |
| 2:00 | · | she is allowed to save one Trojan of her |
| 2:03 | · | choosing and she selects her brother who |
| 2:06 | · | eventually becomes known to us today as |
| 2:08 | · | prium king of |
| 2:10 | · | Troy so that's the myth this was well |
| 2:14 | · | known in the classical world and |
| 2:16 | · | practically all aspects of anything even |
| 2:19 | · | remotely involving the Trojan War or the |
| 2:22 | · | city of Troy more generally was a common |
| 2:24 | · | theme in artwork which is where the |
| 2:27 | · | subject of this video comes in this |
| 2:30 | · | monster was known specifically as a |
| 2:31 | · | ketos a sea monster it's very very |
| 2:35 | · | broadly connected to sea serpents and |
| 2:37 | · | that sort of thing and it shows up on |
| 2:40 | · | Plenty of pottery such as this one but |
| 2:43 | · | it is also depicted as looking like this |
| 2:46 | · | this is a crater a vessel typically used |
| 2:49 | · | to mix wine with water and this was made |
| 2:52 | · | sometime between about 560 and about 540 |
| 2:56 | · | BC it is Corinthian originally and it is |
| 2:59 | · | currently housed in the Boston Museum of |
| 3:01 | · | Fine Arts in the year 2000 the |
| 3:04 | · | classicist Adrienne mayor published a |
| 3:07 | · | paper titled the monster of Troy vas the |
| 3:10 | · | early artistic record of a vertebrate |
| 3:11 | · | fossil discovery and essentially what |
| 3:14 | · | she argues is the following there are |
| 3:17 | · | books with titles like the Trojan War |
| 3:19 | · | and Greek art the art of the Trojan War |
| 3:21 | · | Etc which collect you know artwork |
| 3:25 | · | dealing with that mythological SL |
| 3:27 | · | semi-historical |
| 3:28 | · | conflict and all of the depictions of |
| 3:30 | · | the monster of Troy look broadly uniform |
| 3:34 | · | but this Corinthian crater appears to |
| 3:37 | · | stand out art historians have taken a |
| 3:39 | · | look at this item and they've genuinely |
| 3:41 | · | stated that this is a depiction of the |
| 3:43 | · | monster in a cave and what you're seeing |
| 3:47 | · | is the head sticking out of said cave or |
| 3:50 | · | it is a serpent or a serpent-like |
| 3:52 | · | creature that's sort of coiled up and |
| 3:54 | · | sitting on a boulder or the ground you |
| 3:57 | · | can clearly see wounds inflicted from |
| 3:59 | · | arrows and Stones presumably thrown by |
| 4:01 | · | Heracles and T who are standing nearby |
| 4:04 | · | this is the earliest depiction of this |
| 4:06 | · | scene that we know of and it seems to be |
| 4:09 | · | unique in the design of the ketos what |
| 4:11 | · | mayor is proposing essentially is that |
| 4:13 | · | this particular one was based on a |
| 4:16 | · | fossil of an extinct animal so if that's |
| 4:19 | · | the case then what's your evidence for |
| 4:21 | · | this how well backed up is the idea and |
| 4:24 | · | what do other Specialists on the subject |
| 4:26 | · | think about the whole thing well Adrien |
| 4:29 | · | mayor notes that the Trojan Coast is a |
| 4:31 | · | region that is to this day rich in |
| 4:33 | · | fossils so it's not entirely out of the |
| 4:36 | · | question that maybe someone somewhere at |
| 4:39 | · | some point would have seen one of these |
| 4:41 | · | not known what it was and interpreted it |
| 4:44 | · | as a monster essentially this is her |
| 4:47 | · | argument the depiction of the ketos in |
| 4:49 | · | the scene on the Corinthian crater is |
| 4:51 | · | not a monster resting on a rock or a |
| 4:53 | · | head sticking out of a cave it's an |
| 4:55 | · | attempt to portray a fossil embedded in |
| 4:57 | · | a cliff face so if that's the case then |
| 5:00 | · | what sort of fossil could this be she |
| 5:03 | · | consulted with seven paleontologists and |
| 5:05 | · | showed them the artwork and all seven of |
| 5:07 | · | them agreed that it apparently does look |
| 5:09 | · | like a fossil sticking out of the |
| 5:12 | · | rock they also C attention to what |
| 5:14 | · | appears to be an articulated Jawbone a |
| 5:16 | · | hollow eye socket teeth and a damaged or |
| 5:20 | · | in fact entirely absent upper jaw the |
| 5:23 | · | conclusion reached in her paper is that |
| 5:25 | · | this is probably a samum so this is one |
| 5:28 | · | interpretation of the crater could it |
| 5:31 | · | indeed be an ancient depiction of a |
| 5:33 | · | fossil well it certainly could be sure |
| 5:36 | · | as far as other Specialists not only |
| 5:38 | · | historians and archaeologists but also |
| 5:41 | · | paleontologists and biologists are |
| 5:43 | · | concerned opinion seems to be sort of |
| 5:46 | · | split ultimately the argument that this |
| 5:48 | · | artifact is an ancient depiction of a |
| 5:50 | · | fossil boils down to well it sort of |
| 5:53 | · | looks like one so for the rest of this |
| 5:55 | · | video we're going to take a look at some |
| 5:57 | · | criticisms of this interpretation and |
| 5:59 | · | then a different proposal for what this |
| 6:01 | · | actually is Mark Whitten is a |
| 6:03 | · | paleontologist who has questioned this |
| 6:05 | · | conclusion and for two very good reasons |
| 6:09 | · | if Adrien mayor is correct he notes that |
| 6:11 | · | this would be astounding it would |
| 6:13 | · | probably be one of the earliest artistic |
| 6:15 | · | depictions of a fossil that we currently |
| 6:16 | · | know of but if it is a fossil it might |
| 6:20 | · | not be samum he points out that the |
| 6:23 | · | color essentially seems to be wrong |
| 6:25 | · | while you do have to take into account |
| 6:27 | · | artistic license the color in the |
| 6:28 | · | Corinthian C is white or whitish samum |
| 6:33 | · | fossils typically are not white they're |
| 6:35 | · | actually more of a tan color it actually |
| 6:37 | · | appears to have more in common with the |
| 6:39 | · | color of more modern bones rather than |
| 6:41 | · | samum fossils the other objection he |
| 6:44 | · | holds is that if you're going to |
| 6:45 | · | interpret this artwork as depicting a |
| 6:47 | · | fossil you need to look at the whole |
| 6:50 | · | thing and not just hyperfocus on one |
| 6:52 | · | detail when you do that what you notice |
| 6:55 | · | is that compared to everything else in |
| 6:57 | · | the piece the monster itself seems to be |
| 6:59 | · | sort of loosely drawn Now by itself |
| 7:02 | · | that's not the final nail in the coffin |
| 7:04 | · | but as this is the only example we know |
| 7:06 | · | of that depicts the monster of Troy in |
| 7:08 | · | this manner we need to be very critical |
| 7:11 | · | of it and if it's Loosely drawn then how |
| 7:13 | · | seriously are we to take these features |
| 7:16 | · | this is where Julian Mong Nera a |
| 7:20 | · | professor of biology at the University |
| 7:22 | · | of Costa Rica comes into play in 2020 he |
| 7:25 | · | published a paper which basically took |
| 7:27 | · | Mayor Sam ethereum hypothesis |
| 7:30 | · | and tried to test it to the extent that |
| 7:32 | · | something like this can even really be |
| 7:34 | · | done in four different ways he conducted |
| 7:37 | · | a double blind test involving 78 |
| 7:39 | · | biologists who compare the art on the |
| 7:41 | · | vessel with skulls of samum and various |
| 7:45 | · | other animals including some reptiles he |
| 7:48 | · | conducted an informed survey of 30 |
| 7:50 | · | students to review the hypothesis he |
| 7:52 | · | conducted a computerized image analysis |
| 7:55 | · | and lastly he conducted a morphological |
| 7:58 | · | comparison so so essentially what he was |
| 8:00 | · | attempting to do here was gather a broad |
| 8:02 | · | range of data and opinions Adrien mayor |
| 8:06 | · | initially only spoke to seven |
| 8:07 | · | paleontologist in her paper while this |
| 8:10 | · | study dealt with 108 people in total |
| 8:13 | · | both biologists and students so 15 times |
| 8:16 | · | the initial amount and also ran through |
| 8:19 | · | computer |
| 8:20 | · | models so what did he find well the |
| 8:24 | · | result of each test rejected the S |
| 8:26 | · | theorum |
| 8:27 | · | hypothesis as disappointing as that may |
| 8:29 | · | be I will say I have a lot of respect |
| 8:31 | · | here for Adrian Mayer because she |
| 8:33 | · | cooperated wholeheartedly with this |
| 8:35 | · | study which is something that can be |
| 8:37 | · | very difficult to do given that the |
| 8:38 | · | findings basically took her idea and |
| 8:40 | · | rejected it anyway both the computer |
| 8:43 | · | models and the actual humans involved in |
| 8:46 | · | the study tended to choose another |
| 8:48 | · | animal as the model for the fossil if |
| 8:50 | · | that is indeed what this is what they |
| 8:52 | · | chose instead was a varanus A genus of |
| 8:55 | · | large carnivorous |
| 8:57 | · | lizard the example that many of you |
| 8:59 | · | watch watching this would probably be |
| 9:00 | · | familiar with is the Komodo dragon all |
| 9:03 | · | of that being said any attempt to figure |
| 9:05 | · | this out ultimately comes back to the |
| 9:07 | · | quality of the artwork and the fact that |
| 9:10 | · | this particular example of the monster |
| 9:11 | · | of Troy appears to be the only one of |
| 9:14 | · | its kind so despite the fossil |
| 9:16 | · | hypothesis being extremely interesting |
| 9:19 | · | and a fun problem to work with probably |
| 9:21 | · | the best answer to this question is that |
| 9:24 | · | if this is indeed a skull it either |
| 9:26 | · | belongs to some carnivorous lizard such |
| 9:29 | · | as something in the genus veranus as per |
| 9:31 | · | the most recent study or maybe a |
| 9:34 | · | crocodile skull which although they are |
| 9:36 | · | not native to Asia Minor I suppose would |
| 9:39 | · | not be entirely outside the realm of |
| 9:41 | · | possibility so what do you think is this |
| 9:44 | · | a classical depiction of a fossil |
| 9:46 | · | artistic license or something else |
| 9:49 | · | entirely |
