Posted on 10/16/2024 9:51:11 AM PDT by Angelino97
It depends. If you mean, “What happens to those who die rejecting Christ?” the Church’s answer is uncompromising: They will go to hell.
But no one goes to hell by accident. If someone is simply ignorant of the name of Christ through no fault of his own, there is no sin in that. He has not rejected Christ. Moreover, we know Christ is not constrained by our knowledge. He can work in a heart even when that heart is only dimly aware of it.
Jesus speaks of this in the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. The ones judged here are “the nations”—those outside the visible communion of the Church. How are they judged? By the way they responded to Christ when he came to them in disguise. “I was sick and you visited me; hungry, and you fed me; thirsty and you gave me something to drink.” How do the sheep and the goats respond? With surprise.
The point is, we may not know it, but Christ comes to us even when we don’t (or can’t) come to him. This is why the Church counsels us to hope and pray for the dead. We must not pretend we know what God is up to in the lives of others. We know where the Church is. We do not know where it is not.
:-) I think Jesus had a ‘mission’.
But are you sure this does not say "spoken in Catholic oral tradition" - as promulgated by non-inspired leadership - by which Rome can "remember" what history "forgot" to record for centuries?
You’ll need better examples than that.
Jesus certainly thought demons and Satan was real.
So when God says He’ll cover you with His wings, have you met ONE Christian yet who thinks God has wings?
Have you met anyone who advocates cutting off their hand and plucking out their eyes because of sin?
Because if you’re going to charge that people take the Bible literally, you need to be consistent in that and those are just a couple examples of where a literal interpretation could be taken.
So where are those who claim the whole Bible is to be taken literally with no recognition of poetry, parables, simile, and metaphor?
Yes, i agree, the house had better be on fire.
So, if there IS no judgement after death, then where will justice be?
There is very little justice in this world.
That’s just the thing - I don’t know when Jesus was speaking in a symbolical way with reference to the culture and mythology that people of his time would understand, or when he was being literal. But even to suggest that is offensive to some people.
I also don’t know if Jesus meant that HE was the ‘savior’, or if what he TAUGHT was the ‘savior’. But again, that’s a blasphemous idea to a lot of people.
That’s all I have to say. While it’s important to me to be honest as to what I personally believe, if I’m asked, I don’t like arguing about religious teachings. I don’t like people being insulted for differing beliefs, either; and that is usually my concern in threads like these.
I am sure that you meant "not one person thinks it should ALL be taken literally."
Many attacks are made on the Bible due to careless reading of it by subjects who neglect or are quite ignorant of basic rules of interpretation, most of which we use in everyday life. Instead they are found neglecting or ignoring context, grammatical aspects, etc. in a document of almost 800,000 words, from about 40 different writers of various occupations, covering two basic covenants, and using two languages (with a third being very limited), and many literary genres (including Law, History, Wisdom, Poetry, Epistles, Prophecy, etc.).
In which, along with and usually within literal speech, the Bible employs multitude figures of speech, including, euphemism, circumlocution, metaphor, allegory, allusion hyperbole, understatement, idiom, sarcasm, personification, pun, simile, synecdoche, etc.), within a vast number of contexts,
All of which were penned over a period of approx. 1600 years while covering vast expanses of time (as with communication in a literary society) (and existing in thousands of manuscripts of copies of copies of varying qualities).
The argument from some if that people take the Bible literally, which is just a strawman construct so they can knock it down and feel good about themselves for beating an opponent that doesn’t exist except in their heads.
Anyone who wants to discredit Scripture and people who believe it’s Truth and inerrant needs to do better than constructing false positions to argue against.
Oh?
Reading about the seven churches that the angel told John to write to in the first three chapters leads me to believe that they were.
If you've got any evidence to items 1 thru 3, I'd like to read it.
O...K...
No guts: no glory!
the same thing that happens to those who die and DO believe... youre dead...
Well...
... failing the scripture test was mentioned earlier.
As for me, I do not want justice.
I want MERCY!!!
It sure seems that way...
Looks like Scripture disagrees with the Catholic claim that believers are in heaven RIGHT NOW; doesn't it!
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Dead in Christ?
I thought Rome says the 'in Christ' folks are already in Heaven?
Then what's this RAISING that is being bandied about here?
I think we'll be suprised at some who ARE in Heaven, as well as some who AREN'T!
I believe the good book is an excellent moral compass for the human race. for without it, I believe things would be worse than they are today. I also believe in what I see and what I dont see. that said, I believe when youre dead, youre dead period... just sayin...
I think Frost was referring to the idea that our faith in our ideals helps to usher them into reality.
That seems to have been the case for a band of very idealistic thinkers who managed to triumph over the most powerful military of their time, against all odds.
Regardless of Rome says, and most therein are dead outside of Christ, the context is that of physical resurrection, that of the bodies whose spirit is on Heaven. Which will include Moses and Elijah, as well as souls in Heaven who ask the Lord, "with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Revelation 6:10) All of whom are definitely not sleeping unconsciously. To God be the glory.
Correct, mercy is better.
Let me ask you, what if everybody, no matter how bad, got mercy?
Where would justice be then?
Justice and Mercy are opposites.
We can only have both through the atonement of Jesus Christ.
It’s even worse… wise men from the tribe after being told they now know about Christ, etc… “Why did you tell us?!”
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