Posted on 08/02/2024 12:18:58 PM PDT by vespa300
In short, though the seventh day was sanctified and set apart in Eden, reiterated in the Decalogue, kept by Jesus and the early church, and remains a weekly reminder of creation and redemption—1,800 years of tradition has so distorted the Christians’ view of the Sabbath that, yes, and unfortunately, most remain oblivious to the obvious.
(Excerpt) Read more at adventistreview.org ...
I don't have time for a full response on this but the Sabbaths were NOT a disputable matter. It was normative and cultural to observe them. There were no other options for those who worshipped the God of the bible. What WAS disputable was HOW to observe them. The ruling religious elite insisted that manmade rulings and definitions should be used. Jesus rejected these man made (not biblical) laws and those who knew him as God followed his example.
Rather than hatred, I think confusion is the norm regarding the Sabbath day. So many questions: What day is the Sabbath, what we can do, can’t do, should do and shalt not do, etc.?
And, however one answers any of these questions, and because we all have so many different answer, does it even matter? And if it does, then to what degree if we get it wrong? Major sin? Minor sin? All sin is sin? Forgiven sin?
Who knows? And if someone does know, then why should anyone listen to them, right? We all have our own truths that we believe are just as good as anyone else’s, right?
Me? I agree with the 7th Day denominations that the Sabbath day is Saturday, not Sunday.
I think the change to Sunday was mandated by law as a political solution to both ease bringing pagans into the Christian fold and to also be wholly separate from the Jews.
And I believe that Jesus essentially tore up Mosaic Law, as written by Moses, and replaced it with Himself. But, the 10 Commandments were written by God and given to Moses and through Moses to the Jews and the world, and are still in effect now and forever.
Regarding the Sabbath, beyond not working or making anyone else do work for me on the Sabbath day, I don’t have a clue what to do or what not to do compared to the other 6 days of the week.
So, if someone is of clear mind and strong faith and whole heartedly believes the Sabbath day is Sunday and acts accordingly, is Jesus cool with that or not? I don’t know. Not my call.
Again, more confusion, I suppose, but it’s not worth falsely accusing anyone of hatred or some other motive or agenda and then potentially reaping what one sows as a result.
>>>>Perhaps it’s better to not judge evangelicals about what you think they hate. That’s dangerous and potentially sets you up to be measured by a similar ruler.>>>>
I’m not judging their salvation. I was careful not to do that. But it’s clear as day, they have contempt for the Sabbath. I mean....that’s just plain obvious. Anyone can see that.
That is why they cannot debate the issue. Ironically, the become like Democrats who resort to strong feelings and emotions instead of the plain texts in the Bible. The Sabbath is the easiest doctrine in the Bible. All a person has to be able to do is count up to 7.
And the Bible could not be more clear on when the Sabbath was “made” and for whom. At creation for man. It predates sin. It was placed in stone with murder, adultery, lying, and stealing. God didn’t do that on a whim. Those are the moral laws that guide and will be the moral laws that judge us.
I don’t keep the Sabbath perfectly. I don’t keep any of the commandments perfectly. But I don’t throw the entire law out just because of one commandment.
They aren’t kidding anyone, only themselves. They claim Adventists are under “law.” Well, next time they accuse a homosexual or abortion.......they are under law and suddenly laws are ok.
It’s a bizarre mindset. They don’t even keep Sunday anymore. Christians used to keep Sunday as a holy day. In some states, they still have blues laws...sunday laws. But the attack on the Sabbath started and now with dispensationalism, they have managed to talk themselves out of the 10 commandments just because one commandment....the Sabbath. And they know Sunday is not hinted at in the Bible. They point to a meal the disciples had on the first day. As if a Denny’s gran slam breakfast changes the law of God.
Acts 2 says they broke bread daily. So much for that argument. Then they point to Romans 14. Again, weak. Those are annual sabbaths not the sabbath in the 10 commandments. John sees the Sabbath in Revelation 1.
Ironically, by tossing out the Sabbath based on Romans 14....they toss out Sunday too. Makes no sense. It’s bizarre.
The good news is more and more people are discovering the Sabbath becaues it’s an end time issue. It’s gonna be huge. Sunday is going to be exalted more and more. The papacy will see to that. It’s her day and she’s the great counterfeit and the evangelicals are reaching out to her.
This is all prophecy. Daniel 7:25, etc. The anti Christ attempting to “change set times and law.”.....the only commandment having to do with time......in the law....is the Sabbath and the Papacy hates the Sabbath because it rebukes her authority.
The protestant reformers pretty much all knew and wrote who the great counterfeit was. And God has people in that church but as we near the end..he is calling them out........”come out of her my people lest you share in her plagues”....
The issue in Revelation is worship. Worship the beast or worship the creator. And the 7th day Sabbath was made at creation to commemorate creation.
It’s just not that hard. The whore and her daughters. thats’ the mother church and the other churches that reach out to join her on common doctrine.
She will have her way again as she did for 1260 years....her wound is healed. And we will have Sunday laws again and if you keep the Sabbath......you can neither buy nor sell and it’s a terrible time for us. the whole world joined and a decree issued to wipe out those who do not conform.
The only way to get Daniel was to find something related to “the law of his God”.....Daniel 6:5.....and Daniel is prophecy and so is Revelation and Revelation says the remnant church.....not a denomination......a people.....are those who keep the commandments of God.....and have the spirit of prophecy.
It’s not that hard.......but most will be deceived and lost.
Please show me any verse which states that gentile Christians have been instructed to keep “the Sabbath.” I’ve read the Bible a few times but I must have missed that in my readings.
I don’t recall any of the Patriarchs from Adam to Jacob being mentioned in the Bible as kept or having to keep the Sabbath. The first time I remember hearing about anyone being told to keep the Sabbath as a practice is in Exodus because it is one of the 10 Commandments given to Moses by God. (Mosaic law)
Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. The Pharisees were very upset with Him because He did not keep the Sabbath the way they felt it should be kept. They were blind to the truth of who Jesus was. All they could see was the letter of the law not the very Spirit who wrote the law.
The concept of the Sabbath may predate most of the Bible but the requirement to keep it came with Mosaic law. We are no longer under the law of Moses. We are under God’s grace given us by what Jesus did for us.
Resting on the 7th day is a very good thing. Just like regular fasting, it is good for the body and spirit. I don’t fault you for desiring to honor God in this way. But I also don’t fault anyone else for honoring God by meeting together on the Sunday.
Biblically there is no such thing as gentile Christian. There are Christians and there are gentiles. Today we might call them Christians and non-Christians. To enter into a relationship with Christ we need to follow Christ in the way that the bible tells us and receive the holy spirit of God. I don’t recall any of the Patriarchs from Adam to Jacob being mentioned in the Bible as kept or having to keep the Sabbath. The first time I remember hearing about anyone being told to keep the Sabbath as a practice is in Exodus because it is one of the 10 Commandments given to Moses by God. (Mosaic law)
The ten commandments existed prior to them being made as part of the old covenant. Abraham was commended by God for keeping them:
Gen 26:4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."
Now Abraham CLEARLY kept the Sabbath since it was part of the creation story handed down over history. And speaking of the old covenant the Sabbath commandment was specifically re-revealed to Israel BEFORE God re-revealed his commanemtns to Israel at Mount Sinai.
Exo 16:25 Then Moses said, "Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field.
Exo 16:26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none."
So what should be obvious is that the Sabbath has existed since the beginning of human history...as were the rest of the ten commandments. I suspect they are built into the fabric of our reality.
Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. The Pharisees were very upset with Him because He did not keep the Sabbath the way they felt it should be kept. They were blind to the truth of who Jesus was. All they could see was the letter of the law not the very Spirit who wrote the law.
He said the Sabbath was made for mankind:
Mar 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."
The greek word translated "man" in verse 27 is the greek word "anthropos" which is used to designate mankind in general. So God created the Sabbath for all of mankind. It has benefits for all of humanity. And when we enter into a new covenant relationship with christ the true benefit comes from keeping the Sabbath of the Lord because the holy spirit shows, guides and shapes us to keep the Lord Jesus Christ's commandments.
I find verse 28 interesting in that Jesus states clearly that HE is the Lord over the Sabbath because he is the one that created it in the first place.
The concept of the Sabbath may predate most of the Bible but the requirement to keep it came with Mosaic law. We are no longer under the law of Moses. We are under God’s grace given us by what Jesus did for us.
Another blasphemous concept that has led to the evil we see in the world today. Grace simply means that we have entered into a relationship with Christ and so are given some leeway when we sin. We are not under the penalty of death for sinning because the sacrifice of Christ paid the penalty for us. But that doesn't negate obedience to the laws of God.
Yeah because God gives a good ‘goddam about you and your Sabbath. Enjoy, you snowflake fuckin pussies.
>>>Yeah because God gives a good ‘goddam about you and your Sabbath. Enjoy, you snowflake fuckin pussies>>>
Well, actually, it’s not my Sabbath. The Bible says it is God’s Holy day. Thanks though. Are you ok? You seem kind of angry.
>>>I don’t recall any of the Patriarchs from Adam to Jacob being mentioned in the Bible as kept or having to keep the Sabbath. >>>>
Please show me one text where they were told not to commit adultery? Or where Cain was told not to kill? Joseph apparently knew it was a sin to commit adultery with Potifers’ wife but we don’t read anywhere where he was told about it.I don’t see where Cain was told anywhere that killing was a sin but God said....”sin lieth at your door.”
The book of Genesis is a book of origin not commandments. Ironically, being made in God’s image, probably the ONLY commandment God had to specifically tell Adam about was the Sabbath day commandment. He had God’s law in his heart and since Jesus said he made Adam and made the Sabbath FOR MAN..and Adam literally means MAN as in MANKIND......How beautiful that God told Adam to tend to the garden but then told him he had a day off.
Do you actually believe Adam had to work every day? Even we get weekends.
By the way....let’s set all this aside......do you keep Sunday as the Lord’s day? The whole day like protestants used to keep? Im finding today’s evangelicals don’t even do that anymore.
How can we know for certain the actual day of the week the Sabbath is after 6,000+ years ?
....
Christ rested on that Sabbath in the tomb about 2,000 years ago.
In the bible it’s the 15th Day of His 1st month.
It’s not found using the Pope Gregory calendar.
The day before Christ rested in the tomb, He died as the Passover Lamb,the 14th Day of His 1st month.
It’s also not found using the Pope Gregory calendar.
It’s found using His lights in the firmament.
Those 2 days, the 14th and 15th, are 2/3 of Paul’s 1st importance of the gospel.
The 3rd day of Paul’s first importance of the gospel is the 16th Day of His 1st month, Feast of First Fruits/wavesheaf.
It also isn’t found using the Pope Gregory calendar.
His Sabbath hasn’t changed. But times and law has, just like the bible predicts..
And when Passover (14th), Unleavened Bread(15th), First Fruits(16th) don’t match the Pope Gregory Friday,Saturday, Sunday...
The fault isn’t with the bible days.
The fault is with the Pope Gregory calendar.
But until that calendar goes away, the world gets to follow the Beast of Daniel instead of following the Passover Lamb..
The Lamb’s birth, circumcision, presentation in the temple, death,burial rest, Resurrection and gifting of the Holy Spirit land on bible days He taught Israel.
They aren’t found using the Pope Gregory calendar.
That’s not to say the Pope Gregory calendar doesn’t have days that mirror those biblical days..
They just mirror them.
A more brutal word to use would be they counterfeit His days..
And therein is the problem that Daniel predicted.
Something out of the 4th Beast would think to change times and law..
His Son died on His 6th workday.
Rested on the Sabbath
Resurrected on the 1st Day
Those are the 14th,15th,16th in His 1st month.
Those 3 days are His 6th,7th,1st every month..
Each of His months have those 3 days smack dab in the middle of His months.
Just not found using the Pope Gregory calendar..
The Lamb can teach us how He tells time. He can teach us but we’d have to be willing to unlearn how we tell time these days..
And religion is in no condition to unlearn
Sunday IS the Lord's Day - as evidenced by it's terminology in Greek, Latin and in the Pauline Epistles, is the Lord's Day
Only non-Christians like Seventh Day Adventists who have the false prophetess Ellen G White, only the SDA reject the Lord's day
Aren't you a Seventh Day Adventist who believes that Jesus came in 1844, vespa300?
vespa - the Bible also clearly points out that Michael is one of many archangels (princes of angels) as in Daniel 12.
Yet you Seventh Day Adventists insist that Jesus is the Archangel Michael — just as the Jehovah’s witnesses do
Oh and due to Jesus, the Lord’s Day when we Christians worship the Lord is the first day of the week, not Sobota/the last day of the week
did you discussed the abuse of alter boys by Polish priests or did I miss it?
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