[Chickensoup]

I am listening to ANCIENT ROMANS by Thomas R Martin. Struck at how closely the fall of western civilization follows the fall of Rome. It is available through Blackstone audio using their Downpour app.

How MIGRANTS took over civilization and the outcome is the end of this fascinating book about the rise of Mediterranean civilizations. Not to be missed.

https://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Rome-Justinian-Thomas-Martin/dp/0300198310

[Phoenix8]

I have a book, a biography, on the great Cicero of Rome. He lived right in the time parallel to what seems like we are beginning. That is the fall of its Republic. I noticed some interesting parallels as well.

I should re-read it.

[pepsionice]

You can add a increasing taxation situation, inflation, and heavy reliance upon slave-labor to accomplish public projects. Some historians will even say by the early 300s...the empire was sinking.

[jerod]

Did the often phrased ‘Fall of Rome’ ever truly happen?

Rome is obviously still there and it can be said that Rome didn’t really ‘fall’... Instead, it merely transformed from a pagan empire that converted to Christianity into a Christian empire that perverted Christianity. The Holy See is still a monarchy and empire that exist to this day. The supposed end of the Roman Empire was followed by the ‘Dark Ages’, but even in the dark ages Christ was worshiped and flourished through the empire of the Holy See, which was and still is located in Rome.

It can be said that empires do not really fall, but rather that they transform into something else that isn’t recognized as being civilized.

[jimfree]

It’s a natural progression. Has little to do with how advanced a society is except relatively within its era.

[Nifster]

And for similar reasons

[MCF]

All great civilizations collapse. We often point to Rome but there have been many others since. Britain had a greater Empire then Rome but now look at it. It’s history was like Rome’s in fast forward. The ruins of mighty civilizations litter the planet, as ours will someday too.

[NetAddicted]

Rd later.

[Claud]

This is a fascinating period to study with relevance to our present day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century

[Flavious_Maximus]

Once you have a specific class of parasite voting themselves the treasury, it’s all over. Now the takers far outnumber the producers.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams

[sauropod]

Bkmk

[Buttons12]

Per the Bard, there is a tide in the affairs of men.

Nations are composed of men, and have their ebb and flow, and empires have their expansions and contractions.

Empires, being run by men, will overreach, they don’t know when to quit. They don’t perceive the forces of their destruction, they don’t see doom coming or even when it’s done with them.

A man is his own nemesis, and that’s true of societies, empires, and civilizations.

“If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.” — A. Lincoln

[mewzilla]

From 1963...

Bureaucracy Kills: A Lesson from Rome

Our founders knew this.

There's a very good reason kids no longer get a classical education in publik skrewls.

[LouAvul]

Where’ve you been? I’ve been instructed that the USA would mirror Rome since I was in grammar school in the 50s. Even then, pundits with foresight knew the insidious and pervasive influence of the liberal mindset. I guess anybody who knew what happened to Joe McCarthy knew the USS America was going to capsize.

[Cronos]

How MIGRANTS took over civilization

Not exactly:

1. "Rome" didn't fall until 1453 -- yes, the "Byzantine Empire" called itself the Roman empire, it was called the Roman empire by Western Europeans and by Arabs and Turks (which is why the Turks called themselves before 1400s "the sultanate of the Rum i.e. Rome"
   
   
2. The Western Roman empire didn't 'fall' --> what happened was that the Gothic king basically sent the purple robes (i.e. the clothes of office) of the Western Emperor to the "Eastern" Emperor - Zeno and told Zeno "hey, you are the emperor of the entire Roman empire"
   
   
3. "Migrants" -- well, the Germanic tribes did move in and BECOME Romanized - heck the Goths, both the Ostrogoths and Visigoths were heavily culturally Romanized before they moved in and the Franks converted to Catholic/Orthodox Christianity

   technically these were refugees (so still in line with the parallel you made) - Goths fleeing from the Huns

The Western Roman Empire collapsed because of myriad reasons:

• The biggest reason was economic - the Roman empire during the Principate era was a slave driven empire and this was the source of money. When that dried up after Hadrian said "this faahr, no fahrder" then that was the start of the crisis
  
  
• economic crisis continued - the currency was devalued and the coins debased and people lost trust in the coins (as they weren't pure silver any more)
  
  
• Lack of a succession strategy - the majority of "Emperors" during the Principate era (when they had the title Princeps or first citizen) i.e. until Diocletian in 300 AD - the majority were assassinated. They never came up with a good way of succession that lasted
  
  
• Not adjusting with the newcomers -- the Goths were fleeing the Huns, and could have been broken up and coopted into the empire - instead the Empire first slaughtered them, then lost
  
  
• Climate change - yes, this wasn't man-made - the climate change of the 200s led to the crisis of the 3rd century. We saw the same in China in the same period with the collapse of the Han dynasty, with India and the end of the Guptas etc. etc.

[moovova]

The big difference...tourists visit the ruins of these ancient civilizations. Will there be ruins of our current civilization worthy of visitation by future civilizations? Will the “visitors” be aliens from another planet wondering just what the heck was a Hooters...or a Tesla dealership? Upon translating and reading history books of our time, will they wonder why we didn’t defend ourselves when our nations were invaded by other countries? Will future tourists or “alien visitors” learn a lesson from our destruction?

[Savage Beast]

I foresaw this back in the Jimmy Carter Administration. The handwriting on the wall was crystal clear.

That's when I bought and read Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

Since then I've felt like Cassandra, shouting warnings. Some would hear, but many would not.

Many still will not heed the warnings.

There is no limit to the power of denial.

[Savage Beast]

Long ago, my father's elderly brother, a wise and brilliant man, told me that one day America could well go the way of the Roman Republic.

I believed him.

I believed in his great wisdom.

However I did not think it could possibly happen in my lifetime--or even in the lifetime of my grandchildren--and, considering the enormous internal strength of the American People, the American Government, the American Dream, and the USA at that time, I could not imagine how it could possibly come about.

Now I know.

Now I know only too well.

[central_va]

We are 50 nation states operating under a Federal Govt that has gone rouge. If the Federal Govt. fails it does not mean all 50 nation states making up the republic will fail. On the contrary many, if not most would prosper without the Federal yoke on their neck.

[Savage Beast]

The USA, the American People, and American Civilization reached their zenith on June 6, 1944, D-Day, the day of the Normandy Invasion.

The Decadence of Western Civilization in America erupted into the open as the counter-culture movement of the 1960's. Few people--including me--recognized it for what it was at the time. Since then America and the American People have continued to sink inexorably into deeper and deeper decay.

That's what the appalling corruption in contemporary Washington is--and the inability of millions of Americans to see it for what it its.

That's what the degeneration of the US Free Press into a crass propaganda machine and a Praetorian Guard for corrupt politicians is.

That's what the open borders, the widespread drug abuse and pornography, the ubiquitous crime, defecation of public sidewalks, political prosecutions, and all the rest are.

Can a civilization afflicted with decadence reject the decay and become once again ascendant?

Donald Trump believes that it can. So convinced is he that he risked everything he had--a considerable amount in his case--to save his beloved USA from decadence and destruction.

And witness what the evil ones and those who accept the decay have done to him! They are determined to prevent his return of America to ascendancy--to prevent him from Making America Great Again--at any cost, even the entire destruction of the USA and the American People.

This is the enormity of their profits from the decadence and downfall of America.

Will enough Americans awaken to reality and recognize what's happening in time to save the Greatest Nation the World Has Ever Known?

To Make America Great Again?

Only time will tell--but that time is growing short.

[NetAddicted]

This Twitchy article made me think of your post:
https://twitchy.com/artistangie/2023/09/15/how-often-do-you-think-about-the-roman-empire-trend-is-taking-over-social-media-n2387320