Posted on 09/03/2023 10:10:00 AM PDT by daniel1212
Certainly that logical fallacy, a superficial ignorant parroted polemic (such as invokes everything from the Flood to AIDS as a moral argument against God), can be answered. There simply is no contradiction btwn God being omnipotent (and omniscient) and all good (from whom all good has come, as the creator of an exceedingly vast, systematicity ordered universe, exquisitely fine-tuned for our physical life), and the allowance of evil, For unless you want a world in which mankind is like a cloud or a robot, then allowing evil is a necessary good if: Man is to be a being with the ability to make moral choices; And if such choices are to have effects/consequences, for both good and evil, And which consequences can affect others as well as self, directly or indirectly. But which God can make to ultimately work out for what is Good, in the light of all that can be known. Which includes just punishment for eternal beings which manifest they wanted the opposite of God, (John 3:19–21) though only being punished according to what they could and did choose to do, (Deuteronomy 24:16; Luke 10:1- 15; Revelation 20:12; cf. 2 Corinthians 8:12) while making all to work out to the benefit of those who honestly choose Him over sin, seeking and finding the mercy of God in the Lord Christ. (Roman 8:28) Consider some alternatives. God could have, 1. made us (and angels) with no moral standard or sense or deprived us from the moral ability to respond to or choose good [morally insensible, even as with clouds]. 2. granted us free moral agency, but never have given us anything to choose between [negation of moral choices, and no devil or God]. 3. left man only with recourse to finite competing sources as his ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security, and supreme judge of what is good [atheism and atheistic governments]. 4. called man to make the Creator their ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security as being what is right and what is best for man, versus finite created beings or things being one's "god," and provided moral revelation and influences. Yet always have moved us to do good, and never have allowed us to choose evil (even if as by making believing in God and choosing good so utterly compelling — like God appearing daily and always doing miracles on demand, and preventing any seeming evidence to the contrary - so that no man could attempt to make excuses for not believing in Him [effective negation of any freedom to choose]). 5. allowed created beings a negative alternative to faithfulness to the creator, and the ability to choose evil, but immediately reversed any effects and not penalized such [negation of consequences to choices]. 6. allowed us to do bad, but restricted us to a place where it would harm no one but ourselves [isolated consequences to choices]. 7. allowed us to choose between good and evil, and to affect others by it, but not ultimately reward or punish us accordingly [negation of judicial and eternal consequences, positive or negative]. 8. given us the ability to choose, and alternatives to chose between, and to face and overcome evil or be overcome by it, with the ability to effect others and things by our choices, and to exercise some reward or punishment in this life for morality, and ultimately reward or punishment all accordingly [pure justice]. 9. restrained evil to some degree, while making the evil that man does to work out for what is Good, with justice yet with mercy, and grace, towards those who want good, and who thus the One who is supremely Good. 10. in accordance with 8, the Creator could have chose to manifest Himself in the flesh, and by Him to provide man a means of escaping the ultimate retribution of Divine justice, and instead receive unmerited eternal favor, at God's own expense and credit, appropriated by a repentant obedient faith, in addition to the loss or gaining of certain rewards based on one's quality of work as a child of God. And eternally punish, to varying degrees relative to iniquity and accountability, those whose response to God's revelation manifested they want evil, [justice maintained while mercy and grace given]. But man, as an exceedingly finite being who is but a speck in this universe, and in the sea of humanity, and whose existence on earth occupies an infinitesimal amount of time, and who is very ignorant of what all the effects of his choices have been and will be, in time and eternity, and quite impotent to make them all work out as he/she wants, not only in one’s own life but in others, and for this life, as well as eternity, is in no position to sit in judgment upon an omniscient and omnipotent being and giver of life, who alone knows what all the effects will be of even our most seemingly insignificant actions or inactions, not only in this life but for eternity. And can make all work out for what is Good, for what is just, as well as showing mercy and grace. And which the God of the Bible has often manifestly done already, and promises to do for those who choose the ultimate Good, the living and true God, (Romans 8:28) by His grace, thanks be to God. This the choices of an omniscient omnipotent Being cannot be judged as being evil or good by extremely finite and relatively ignorant man. Not that - in my ignorance myself - I have/do not too often protested His dealing with me as I subjectively imagined Him, though objectively blessed, and I am being blessed right now listening to,
Classic Pacino. Knowing Al, that had to be one of his all time favorite roles. And he played it so well.
IF we were to receive what we're due we'd been wiped out a long time ago.
What a great scene, and movie.
The “many religions out there” vs “Christian vs atheist” alternative is just silly.
What I’m showing you here is that you can never get away from black and white thinking. Never!
Not "doubt" - rather, I personally prefer: The spirit of Skepticism < Greek skeptomai, "to search, to think about or look for."
Regards,
But man is responsible for Climate Change. Before sin, the world was "good". In our perspective, it was perfect. Sin brought about the Flood, rugged landscape, uneven water distribution and even the earths wobble.
It's an argument that needs to be engaged.
If you feel in your heart of hearts that your thoughts are weak or foolish, then you will only give hints of them without ever speaking them fully and openly.
This is the strength of truth.
I’m sure God is pleased that this is continuing to repeat itself over and over. Is there no editor or admin watching these posts?
But it takes God out of the entire equation. It’s basically says some people are responsible for the bad things, instead of all Man. And usually that’s a tool that is used to justify the extermination of the “bad” people.
I would be highly skeptical of your skepticism.
I trust humans as far as I can throw them—and when I walk into a church all I see are humans.
When I see a book of any kind all I see are humans.
Human claims about what books mean are human claims—no more no less.
That is what I believe.
I will tell you what I would tell the unjustly harmed family who has been traumatized by a drunk driver:
“It was not fair. It was not just. You did not deserve this—and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. That is all I know—and you have my heartfelt sympathy. If there is anything I can do for you let me know.”
“Why is the British Empire bad?”
The empires, all of them, essentially enslaved the natives of their far away holdings. During the war England exacerbated the starvation happening in India. Then, there’s the salt tax. Also, they imposed their taxes which could only be paid in British pounds. This meant that people who were perfectly happy making their way through life on their own HAD to get jobs working for the English to get the pounds to pay the taxes. There’s a reason why the American colonies broke away. Any profits they made were going to the crown. If that’s not bad, what is?
The assumption here was God didn’t let WWII happen. That presumably meant he did something with the Nazis and the Japanese.
And now in England those chickens have come home to roost.
It all goes back to the ultimate question....
What is the purpose of life?
To a Christian, it is to choose good over evil, because life is all one big test. Imagine that you’re the Creator and have created an entire solar system and in it, an entire world. In your realm, do you want souls that are evil, rebellious, antagonistic, working against you? No. You want souls that seek the good and that will embrace and exhibit your same values and behaviors. How do you accomplish this? By granting free will to those you create and by allowing them to make the choice to follow you or to doom themselves to eternal darkness. That’s how I see it. God allows evil in order to give humans a contrast and an example of which to choose.
There is no atheist conclusion—in the mind of the academic or the common man in all of history—which is not derived from an a priori denial of God.
This is the error in all atheist philosophy. We all know what type of error it is.
Who would replace good thinking with error?
Faith.
You’re telling me you don’t trust your own claims.
Where does that place our discussion?
Yes, but you ignored the first half of my post. How can we judge God in this matter when He is not finished? We have no problem delaying gratification to achieve some future greater good, or to willingly endure pain such as physical exercise to enjoy the health benefits of that exercise. God is dealing with evil, but He is not finished.
Oh and by the way the Problem of Evil is the ultimate example of the Tu Quoque Fallacy. God says do good not evil and man’s response is ya, but what about you?
You may reasonably doubt me and I may reasonably doubt you.
Once we agree on that then we can have great discussions—and not threaten each other with dire consequences for disagreeing.
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