Posted on 05/07/2023 7:44:16 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
Secondary bacterial infection of the lung (pneumonia) was extremely common in patients with COVID-19, affecting almost half the patients who required support from mechanical ventilation. By applying machine learning to medical record data, scientists found that secondary bacterial pneumonia that does not resolve was a key driver of death in patients with COVID-19. It may even exceed death rates from the viral infection itself.
The scientists also found evidence that COVID-19 does not cause a "cytokine storm," so often believed to cause death.
"Our study highlights the importance of preventing, looking for and aggressively treating secondary bacterial pneumonia in critically ill patients with severe pneumonia, including those with COVID-19," said senior author Dr. Benjamin Singer.
The investigators found nearly half of patients with COVID-19 develop a secondary ventilator-associated bacterial pneumonia.
"Those who were cured of their secondary pneumonia were likely to live, while those whose pneumonia did not resolve were more likely to die," Singer said. "Our data suggested that the mortality related to the virus itself is relatively low, but other things that happen during the ICU stay, like secondary bacterial pneumonia, offset that."
The study findings also negate the cytokine storm theory, said Singer.
"The term 'cytokine storm' means an overwhelming inflammation that drives organ failure in your lungs, your kidneys, your brain and other organs," Singer said. "If that were true, if cytokine storm were underlying the long length of stay we see in patients with COVID-19, we would expect to see frequent transitions to states that are characterized by multi-organ failure. That's not what we saw."
The study analyzed 585 patients in the intensive care unit (ICU) at Northwestern Memorial Hospital with severe pneumonia and respiratory failure, 190 of whom had COVID-19.
(Excerpt) Read more at medicalxpress.com ...
Quoting you, to whit you would use a Biden spokeshole's "out of context", is just silly. The context of your quote was in the thread, "Plasmid DNA is a Known Pfizer Ingredient - NOT a Contaminant."
You write, "Shrug and move on was relative to what the population is doing." Specifically "the vast majority have decided to shrug and move on. Which is the correct thing to do."
One observes the highlighted as your advice, that moving on is "the correct thing to do." As such, this wasn't about the "vast majority, for which you think you speak, but about your own prescription, which you assert is "correct." And now "the vast majority" and Jesus agree with you too? Can an appeal to authority rise any higher?
| In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled What really killed COVID-19 patients: It wasn't a cytokine storm, suggests study (Secondary bacterial pneumonia from ventilators), gas_dr wrote: |
Well. Thanks for the anecdotes but this actual data with the actual story demonstrate then that those people with the anecdotal data were going to get well regardless and that the IVM and HCQ are a non-factor. And as you continue to persist on the same topic Terat was advised to delay actual curative therapy to get IVM. Which now according to this study demonstrate its uselessness. But you would have to recall the arguments that were made instead of the pivots attempted here. The reason why some have become the paragon of this is what they always knew if because they have no foundational knowledge so whatever is said sounds good. But in that ignorance people forget what they argued. This study is particularly harmful and confirms the studies that fall on the side of IVM and HCq being reasonable drugs based on the mechanisms discovered. Funny. This is what real science looks like. Non predetermined explanations to results that are well designed and researched. |
This is how those pushing the Covid 'narrative' are dealing with the exposure of their lies:
" ....the actual story demonstrate then that those people with the anecdotal data were going to get well regardless and that the IVM and HCQ are a non-factor."
You know that's not true! You flat out lie to prop up the narrative.
Terart was offered zero treatment from her doctors, so she was not asked to delay actual curative therapy to get more IVM. While pretending to be a doctor, you failed to factor in her blood ox so you sent her for monoclonal infusions, while urging her NOT to take ivermectin.She tracked those infusions down but was not eligible because of her low blood ox. A real doctor would ask her to test her own blood ox before putting her remaining energy into seeking treatment she would be denied. A real doctor would discuss alternatives and options.
This study confirms what I and others were saying - don't trust the doctors, they are blindly following a dangerous protocol controlled by the CDC.
They study you are distorting does not demonstrate that IVM is useless. Your distortion of the truth continues to put FReepers at a disadvantage. Shame on you.
RN. You just don’t have a foundational understanding. This study demonstrates cytokines storm is not a factor. This confirms what I and many other physicians who treated this in real time saw. I tried IVM and it didn’t work on several patients late in the course. I tried HCQ. No dice. IL - 6 inhibitors. Nada. I used very little redesivir. Totally worthless drug.
Everyone was pushing IVM and HCQ because of their immunomodulation. I am stunned you don’t remember what you and your gang vociferously promulgated. It was all the take that early therapy with these drugs would quell immunological storm. You do know HCQ and IVM were trumpeted for their anti-inflammatory effects. You and the others couldn’t repeat it often enough.
So science being logic and reason would conclude that if cytokine storm really isn’t a factor than meds which reduce immunological activity such as cytokine storm which is run away activity are ineffective. This is exactly what we were seeing but you and your were fo busy calling us frauds and liars
The truth is the matter is this. This is strong evidence that supports observational data and helps us understand where we went right and where we went wrong. Yours are the argument of someone who only is able to parrot other people’s beliefs while having no understanding or grounding of the science behind it or the scientific method at large.
It is only logical and proper to then conclude that people on IVM who purportedly got better were destined to get better regardless of if IVM or HCQ were administered. This data show you are wrong Or at lest Krisch and the rest of the renegades were wrong. Science is as much about understanding being incorrect as being correct. You cannot answer simple questions about your hypothesis. You shift stances on the drop of a hat and have little longitudinal consistency as is often the case with people not anchored on bedrock principles. It’s not that you are intentionally trying to promulgate deceit it’s just that you don’t know any better.
You are so dishonest you can’t see your own words. I said Jesus doesn’t like it when you lie. You have now demonstrated with my quote in context that people have shrugged and moved on. I did not say Jesus was on my side. I said your behavior and false witness is an affront to the faith which you and many like minded with you profess.
And you don’t understand data. Most people no longer care or follow Covid. By action and polling certainly most Americans no longer care and have moved on. This is a data point. My interpretation of the data are my data driven conclusions. This is the correct thing to do. You apparently have never had any training in actual scientific methodology not logic or rhetoric.
All I pointed out was Jesus doesn’t like it when you lie. This is a conmentary on your behavior (scripture indeed points out Jesus is not a fan of the intentional bearing of false witness as you did), Not an affirmation of any of my arguments or positions. Perhaps you should take the approach of saying what you mean and meaning what you say. You are fundamentally dishonest and every argument you have made is full of deceit. I simply won’t let you get away with it and this seems to bother you.
Again you continue to lie. My medical license says that that I am licensed to practice medicine. You can produce nothing different because you have nothing. So either produce evidence that I am not a doctor as you accuse me of which or course then puts you in the predicament of violating the rules of this forum by not seeking the identity of a member. Or you are just saying it often enough hoping it becomes true. Let me be clear. When someone levels an accusation the burden of proof is on the accuser. Produce your evidence or admit you don’t know. This allows me to show you as a liar by refuting evidence and should get you banned from the site because it would demostrate your willingly violating the agreed to rules OR admit you can’t prove a thing which means every time you have said you are not a real doctor you know for a fact this is a lie because you cannot back up your statement.
Oh and there are not required protocols. I used remdesevir twice and never again. Real physicians like me also know not to use Midazolam for sedation or ventilated patients as it promotes delirium. I haven’t infuse midazolam for sedation in over a decade. But again you glom onto something that sounds impressive and drive the narrative never realizing what a total fool you look like.
Trust me many of us here on this forum and in the world are laughing at you. And your ongoing insistence that your are correct is actually rather sad and we Pity you because of your lack of ability to admit you are wrong and actually engage in growth and learning.
Your relevance is continually shrinking and this study no matter what you spin is a kill shot on your narrative.
In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled What really killed COVID-19 patients: It wasn't a cytokine storm, suggests study (Secondary bacterial pneumonia from ventilators), gas_dr wrote: Again you continue to lie. My medical license says that that I am licensed to practice medicine. You can produce nothing different because you have nothing. So either produce evidence that I am not a doctor as you accuse me of which or course then puts you in the predicament of violating the rules of this forum by not seeking the identity of a member. Or you are just saying it often enough hoping it becomes true. Let me be clear. When someone levels an accusation the burden of proof is on the accuser. Produce your evidence or admit you don’t know. This allows me to show you as a liar by refuting evidence and should get you banned from the site because it would demostrate your willingly violating the agreed to rules OR admit you can’t prove a thing which means every time you have said you are not a real doctor you know for a fact this is a lie because you cannot back up your statement.
1. You're not a real doctor.
2. Real doctors have the burden to prove they are doctors - the public doesn't have to prove they are not.
Oh and there are not required protocols. I used remdesevir twice and never again. Real physicians like me also know not to use Midazolam for sedation or ventilated patients as it promotes delirium. I haven’t infuse midazolam for sedation in over a decade. But again you glom onto something that sounds impressive and drive the narrative never realizing what a total fool you look like.
3. I've read the statements and analysis of actual doctors who provide their credentials. The CDC offers hospitals incentives to follow the Covid Protocol.
Trust me many of us here on this forum and in the world are laughing at you. And your ongoing insistence that your are correct is actually rather sad and we Pity you because of your lack of ability to admit you are wrong and actually engage in growth and learning.
Your relevance is continually shrinking and this study no matter what you spin is a kill shot on your narrative.
4. You are resorting to the 'royal we' just like a teenager, "Everyone thinks...." "Everyone says..." "We pity you..." I take you to be in your 20's, but you're regressing here. Remember when you threatened me with your lawyer? Grownups know anonymous identities can't sue to protect their anonymous reputations.
You are not a spokesperson although you like to portray yourself that way.
I guess your leaders told you to pronounce truth as having been debunked, because your assertions make no sense otherwise.
-PJ
What do you make of the medical research papers discussed in these videos about HCQ and zinc?
Coronavirus Epidemic Update 32: Important Data from South Korea, Can Zinc Help Prevent COVID-19?
Coronavirus Epidemic Update 34: US Cases Surge, Chloroquine & Zinc Treatment Combo, Italy Lockdown
This one specifically discusses a paper studying the role of hydroxychloroquine in treating cytokine storms, as well as quercetin as a substitute for HCQ.
Coronavirus Pandemic Update 35: New Outbreaks & Travel Restrictions, Possible COVID-19 Treatments
-PJ
| In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled What really killed COVID-19 patients: It wasn't a cytokine storm, suggests study (Secondary bacterial pneumonia from ventilators), gas_dr wrote: |
RN. You just don’t have a foundational understanding. This study demonstrates cytokines storm is not a factor. This confirms what I and many other physicians who treated this in real time saw. I tried IVM and it didn’t work on several patients late in the course. I tried HCQ. No dice. IL - 6 inhibitors. Nada. I used very little redesivir. Totally worthless drug. No - you didn't try any of these. You're not a doctor. Honest physicians created successful Covid protocols employing drugs like HCQ/AZ and Ivermectin, and they saved lives. Countries which employed those drugs fared better than those who withheld them. Everyone was pushing IVM and HCQ because of their immunomodulation. I am stunned you don’t remember what you and your gang vociferously promulgated. It was all the take that early therapy with these drugs would quell immunological storm. You do know HCQ and IVM were trumpeted for their anti-inflammatory effects. You and the others couldn’t repeat it often enough. My posts about Ivermecting and HCQ/AZ were based on proof they work as anti-virals, and I advocated taking them early or prophylactically before any such cytokine storm could be in play. I think you are distorting this to say statements doctor's made to us, telling us that cytokine storm killed, are false and those who advocated Iver or HCQ should be embarrassed. That's ridiculous - those two drugs helped people when doctors and hospitals refused to treat them, cytokine storm or no cytokine storm. I'm surprised you have no memory of all my posts/threads about the medical protocols in use killing patients. So science being logic and reason would conclude that if cytokine storm really isn’t a factor than meds which reduce immunological activity such as cytokine storm which is run away activity are ineffective. This is exactly what we were seeing but you and your were fo busy calling us frauds and liars That's your Strawman argument. In reality, I advocated Iver and HCQ on the basis of doctors who used them successfully, the reports friends gave me of using it successfully, countries which controlled Covid in their populations with those drugs, the history of Ivermectin re safety, President Trump's advocacy of HCQ, Dr. Zelenksy's successful protocol etc. I wasn't targeting cytokine storm - I thought that was very late stage. I wanted people to head it off and never get there. But of course the doctors were lying to us. Not my fault we have been betrayed. PS: You are frauds and liars. Your posts always supported Fauci/CDC statements - for example when they were lying and saying it was a 'pandemic of the unvaccinated' you kept insisting 100% of your fake patient load was unvaccinated. That was exposed as the fraud that it was. The truth is the matter is this. This is strong evidence that supports observational data and helps us understand where we went right and where we went wrong. Yours are the argument of someone who only is able to parrot other people’s beliefs while having no understanding or grounding of the science behind it or the scientific method at large. Dr. Zelensky's stellar reputation, and that of others (e.g., Doctor Merrit, Frontline doctors etc.) meant that we Americans didn't have to stay home until our lips turned blue before going in to the hospital and dying of pneumonia on a ventilator. The 'thorough grounding' you speak of didn't keep patients alive if they fell into the hands of the hospitals, doctors, and the Covid protocol. It is only logical and proper to then conclude that people on IVM who purportedly got better were destined to get better regardless of if IVM or HCQ were administered. This is bizarre. The two are unrelated. You're comparing a hospital population late stage/ventillator with people who escaped the hospital route by treating at home, often early, but sometimes once perilously ill. This data show you are wrong Or at lest Krisch and the rest of the renegades were wrong. You don't understand the data you're throwing around. Science is as much about understanding being incorrect as being correct. You cannot answer simple questions about your hypothesis. You shift stances on the drop of a hat and have little longitudinal consistency as is often the case with people not anchored on bedrock principles. It’s not that you are intentionally trying to promulgate deceit it’s just that you don’t know any better. I'm not the one defending the CDC/Fauci talking points throughout the Covid pandemic, but you are. Perhaps by attacking FReepers you thought we'd forget how much deception you've employed to exaggerate the risks of Covid, downplay the dangers of the vax, and deny, deny, deny drugs like Ivermectin/HCQ help, along with denying the whole medical aspect of this attack on America, and AMericans. |
No proof.
Just volume all of which is incorrect
By the way, when did I ever support Fauci. Look back over my posts. You lie continually.
You are wrong. You have not addressed anything. You have no clue what you are talking about.
I will pray for your enlightenment as well as your soul.
Good night. I will or respond any further your intentional lying. I asked you to put up or shut up. You did neither. It’s ok RN. Real Americans and people of character see you and your gang for what they are. And you only convinced about 30 people in the last several years. Not a great record.
All my patients in fact received 220 mg daily of biologically active zinc. I am sorry I neglected to mention that. It was part of the treatment. Even upon abandoning HCQ and IVM as they are worthless meds and this study demonstrates this fact, all my patients received zinc and vitamin D. That is one thing that was clear as we worked through the tough times.
Thank you for reminding me
| In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled What really killed COVID-19 patients: It wasn't a cytokine storm, suggests study (Secondary bacterial pneumonia from ventilators), gas_dr wrote: |
No proof. Good night. I will or respond any further your intentional lying. I asked you to put up or shut up. You did neither. It’s ok RN. Real Americans and people of character see you and your gang for what they are. And you only convinced about 30 people in the last several years. Not a great record. |
My posting record is my proof. All are welcome to tour it.
You supported the Faucist talking points - whatever Fauci or the CDC was pushing, you coincidentally believed as they did, supported the 'narrative' and criticized only the side opposing the narrative. .
Bizarre claim that you know how many people I did or did not convince over the past several years! Even a stalker wouldn't know that. That type of 'We all agree!" is highschool kid stuff - speaking for others to make me feel as if a crowd agrees with you. You tried to intimidate me with your fake crowd. It doesn't work.
What is your medical opinion of the research studies discussed by Dr. Seheult in the videos regarding cytokine storms and HCQ?
-PJ
I think he is wrong. Treatment to prevent cytokine storm failed specifically IL-6 inhibitors and medications exactly like HCQ which reduce immunologically mediated cytokine storm made little difference. The data in this article support that cytokine storm was not a factor. He had an opinion. Data and research show his hypothesis is incorrect.
Despite what some others have proffered same story for IVM. Despite in Citro weak antiviral properties, there are no in vivo demonstrations of antiviral activity but moderate anti-inflammatory response which would theoretically block cytokine storm. What my opinion is as to the question is not relevant as there is emerging and strong days that he is wrong. Scientific methodology says one should follow the data. This data is well developed study if sufficient power to draw a conclusion that cytokine storm is not a factor. It supports what many of use observed so it makes sense. I am sure there will be more data and studies forthcoming. The question is of IVM and HCQ has at best equivocal data with in vivo studies and clearly were not the panacea some wish to believe as there is such a mixed bag of clinical results the hypothesis that these meds are useful has been rejected by analysis of the data.
Project much?
Shrug and move on. It's the "correct thing to do."
Same tired old response. Very few people here including you understand projection and gaslighting. That being said you never respond to the direct questions you are asked. You are a discernible waste of time with little to offer except someone else’s opinion.
Shrug and move on. It's the "correct thing to do."
Those studies showed reduction in the SARS virus in vitro when zinc+HCL or zinc+quercetin or zinc+chloroquine were added.
Do you think Dr. Seheult's interpretation of those studies was wrong, or that those studies themselves were wrong?
BTW, Dr. Seheult's CV is:
Dr. Seheult is currently an Associate Clinical Professor at the University of California, Riverside School of Medicine, and an Assistant Clinical Professor at the School of Medicine and Allied Health at Loma Linda University.-PJDr. Seheult is quadruple board-certified in Internal Medicine, Pulmonary Diseases, Critical Care Medicine, and Sleep Medicine through the American Board of Internal Medicine.
In 2012 he and Kyle Allred founded MedCram L.L.C., a medical education company with CME-accredited videos that are utilized by hospitals, medical schools, and hundreds of thousands of medical professionals from all over the world (and over 1 million YouTube Subscribers).
"Whitsett, who represents part of Detroit in Michigan's House of Representatives, spoke of her experience with hydroxychloroquine and COVID-19 on Fox News. 'For me, it saved my life,' the lawmaker told Laura Ingraham Monday evening. 'I only can go by what it is that I have gone through and what my story is, and I can't speak for anyone else. So that's not what I'm trying to do here. I'm only speaking for myself'."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/08/fact-check-did-michigan-dem-credit-trump-her-covid-19-recovery/2967210001/
I’m vitro is not in vivo. Lots of things different in a Petrie dish than in a living system.
You should care about the days as it speaks to the overall disease process and points out where we should focus.
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