Posted on 03/09/2023 1:31:44 PM PST by nickcarraway
The Delaware General Assembly is considering a bill that would require Roman Catholic priests to break the seal of confession to report child abuse and neglect, prompting condemnation from the Diocese of Wilmington.
House Bill 74, the sponsors of which include state Senate President Pro Tempore David P. Sokola, could be heard before the House Judiciary Committee within weeks, according to OSV News.
The Diocese of Wilmington condemned the proposed law, noting that priests are bound by the sacrament of reconciliation from breaking the seal of confession, according to the outlet. Catholic canon law mandates that a priest who violates the seal of confession is automatically excommunicated.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
Nope. Exception to those privileges refer only to future crimes & frauds, not those already committed since it would inhibit the effective treatment/defense of the perpetrator.
Whether one likes it or not, this is the law. It has been this way for centuries and serves greater purposes than any individual case. If you want to discuss that, fine. But the religious and legal laws are unambiguous on the sanctity of secrecy in the confessional and law office.
Laws cannot be selectively applied or they cease to exist as laws and become whims of a dictator. This has been universally true throughout ancient and modern jurisprudence. Up until PDJT. Then no privilege applied for some super duper special reasons, or something.
This is satan’s slaves at work. You see, satan isn’t satisfied with your promise of your soul at death in return for earthly successes. No no no satan wants works not just faith. He copied that idea from somewhere.
Saying “I love and worship you oh prince of the darkness,” just isn’t enough.
Those who would rejoice at the downfall of the Catholic Church ought to keep in mind that their Church would be next.
First they came for the Catholics but I wasn’t a Catholic so I did not......
Because if this stands, if priests are deemed to have no right to the confidentiality and sacredness of the Confessional, then it provides a precedent to those who might want to plant recording devices in confessional booths.
Despite peyote being illegal there’s an exception for the Native American Church to use it because they consider it a sacrament, ever hear of the American Indian Religious Freedom Act (AIRFA) of 1978?
Why are people telling a priest all their secrets anyway? God is available 24/7
And despite marijuana being illegal, there is no such exception for the Rastafarians.
You want to keep picking nits? We can do this all day.
It was Satan’s idea to confess to a priest and ask him for forgiveness instead of going straight to God
“Exception to those privileges refer only to future crimes & frauds...”
And since abuse is almost always an ongoing situation, then when someone tells you they are abusing their child, they are disclosing their intent to commit future crimes as well as crimes they have already committed.
“Whether one likes it or not, this is the law.”
Not in Delaware if this law passes. Then THAT will be the law.
“Laws cannot be selectively applied or they cease to exist as laws and become whims of a dictator.”
Nice, so you don’t want a selective exemption for Roman Catholic priests then, I assume?
“... then it provides a precedent to those who might want to plant recording devices in confessional booths.”
That’s what we call a “non sequitur”.
I also never told the priest more than that cause you never know who else is listening! Think Watergate eavesdropping by the DOJ
Such a law gets none of the result superficially intended.. Enacted it would cut confessions o near zero and would make criminals out of those confessors who refuse to comply- all of them, I hope. An arrest of a Priest would end Confession altogether.
I am Catholic and have noted that the more Catholic states are more left. Massachusetts is a case in point. I have Catholic relatives there and they and probably a large majority of Catholics support the Left. Clinton/Obama/Biden can do no wrong.
“Once again, the most Catholic states prove to be the most far left states.”
According to PEW, Delaware is 22% Catholic.
Texas is 23% Catholic.
You might want to rethink your understanding of things.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/us-states-by-population-of-catholics.html
boogie-
look, its not uncommon for people outside the legal field to lack the foundational knowledge and purposes of certain laws. It’s ok.
But your take is emotional, not legal. Privilege applies to events confessed after the fact. Not future. Priests do not have it by virtue of being a priest, or by hearing a confession. Priests, lawyers and psychiatrists have no privilege at all! It is is confessor/client/patient that is the holder of the privilege, and the only person who can waive it. The lawyer, psych or priest has no say on whether it is waived.
Privilege exists to protect the confessor and allow that confessor the exercise of his guaranteed rights to a defense against criminal charges and being thrown into a cage, religious practice to save their eternal soul, treatment of their psych condition - all out the window AND evicerates the chances of the wrongly accused when their only ally can now be interrogated.
Think this through. What you are suggesting is very, very dangerous and undermines every facet of law, psychiatry and religious practice that exists only because of the secrecy respected of those offices. Without protection you can’t help you defense lawyer, can’t disclose your conditions to your dr., can’t seek absolution in church, for fear they will be interrogated by the gov.
It’s easy to fall into this trap when talking about the pedo priest and innocent kid, but it is entirely off point since the priest has no privilege.
Simple example: You are innocent and wrongfully charged. You think it’d be a good idea for your lawyer to be subject to interrogation by the prosecutor? That is the girl you are dancing with.
What Hispanic Catholics?
I thought he was referring to a place like California.
“The lawyer, psych or priest has no say on whether it is waived.”
Then why are they complaining? Let the child abusers complain and petition against this state law, since they will be the only ones affected, according to you, not the priests.
“What you are suggesting is very, very dangerous...”
I’m not suggesting anything. People in the Delaware House of Representatives are suggesting it. Take it up with them.
Logic leads from one point to the next; it is a failure of basic logic when a point is blunted the proponent shifts sideways like a crab to avoid the obvious conclusion. It is a weasel move, a straw man, whatever you want to call it.
There comes a time when an argument is shown to be invalid.
We past that point some time ago. Let go.
Last time:
Assuming you agree with the 5th A right against self incrimination and 4th A right to counsel and right to call W’s on your own behalf, how do you reconcile the two if your own lawyer can be compelled to testify about your communications?
You cannot be candid with the lawyer as he can now be interrogated.
Anything you say to your lawyer can now be used against you.
You give the prosecutors the ability to “disappear” exculpatory evidence obtained through their interrogations of your own lawyer. [That kind of misconduct seems to be in the news now]
And that’s just off the top of my head.
Like I said, think this through.
TALK ABOUT .... OUCH!#! BRUTAL!!
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