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To: SunkenCiv
While there is no doubt of Israelite presence in the land of modern-day Israel from 1400 BC, which gives Jews a historic relationship to the land, I would argue that the more critical argument is that Israel EXISTS, that Jewish people live there and have lived there for generations (they never truly left even after the Kitos war

"Palestinian Arabs" are genetically closely related to Jews --

White paper on "The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean populations"

These "Palestinians" have Egyptian, Sryiac, Bedouin, MOabite, Ammonite and yes Jewish and Israelite ancestry

Israel has constantly said that it is willingly to live and let live -- I know personally Arab (well Arab Christians) from Israel and they have had no official discrimination from the government -- yes, there are some Orthodox Jews (notably they say "more recent arrivals") who verbally abuse, but any discrimination in jobs etc. is not tolerated by the Israeli government

the "Palestinians" need to give up that exonym, call themselves simply "Arabs" or further into sectarian groups and accept Israel's right to exist

..........

5 posted on 02/13/2023 1:26:04 AM PST by Cronos
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To: Cronos
"...the "Palestinians" need to give up that exonym, call themselves simply "Arabs" or further into sectarian groups and accept Israel's right to exist"

I personally think it should be completely irrelevant (from an international standpoint) where Israel is because the world owes the Jews their Zion. Hitler didn't invent the persecution of the Jews, he just made a modern industry out of what been happening to them for centuries (mass-murders, pogroms & evictions) all over Europe.

I understand why the WWII Allies might have ignored intelligence about the death camps in an effort to focus resources on the greater problem of Nazi-controlled Europe. Except that once the war was at an end, not even 1% of the Nazis with Jewish blood on their hands from the Holocaust ever saw the inside of a jail. Even after the war the damned English tried to maintain their embargo on Jewish refugees making Aliya. It might still would be Mandatory Palestine to this day if it weren't for some of the less temperate Jews forcing the English to quit the Mandate.

The lesson of the 19th and 20th Centuries is that the world collectively doesn't give a fig about the Jews, and barely could be bothered to lift a finger to prevent them being exterminated to a man. If they were to have any chance of surviving as a race or a people, it was abundantly clear that the only alternative was to build their Zion, a place where they could be responsible for their own security and well-being, the masters of their own fate, and the keepers of their faith.

That's why I don't see Israel as a nation, I see it as a lifeboat for a people. Their last best chance of survival. And they'd be idiots (which the Jews on the whole clearly are not) if they didn't do exactly whatever is best for themselves and screw what the world thinks about it. The world lost any moral authority to have an opinion on the matter of the Jewish State when the English turned away the SS Exodus at the Port of Haifa in 1947.

So I could not care less where they make their Zion. I find it prophetic that the lands of Samaria and Judea have become that Zion, but what's more important than the geographic location is that it belongs to the Jews, lock, stock and barrel.

I understand the liberal Jews' desire to be accommodating to other religions (the Arabs). What right do you have to expect tolerance if you yourself are intolerant? But it is blindingly obvious how Israel's chances for survival are dimmed if they don't heed the (highly divisive) counsel of Ben-Gvir, that there should be no accommodation of those who want to murder you.

Because if the Jews screw this one up, there's nowhere else to go.

10 posted on 02/13/2023 9:55:41 AM PST by Paal Gulli
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To: Cronos; Paal Gulli; SJackson; Publius
Thanks Cronos and all. [sidebars]

14 posted on 02/14/2023 10:30:33 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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