Posted on 11/12/2022 7:44:47 AM PST by lowbridge
I listened to RTS’s video maybe a total of 3 times. Doesn’t surprise me at all that he tries to disprove the deity of Christ. Here’s what I have:
The caller asks why they (the women) would have to go back and wash/anoint the body the following day (actually Sunday)
R Tovia Singer says:
“This is one of the most brilliant questions ever been asked on this show and it blows my mind away why more people don’t ask it”
“The story is completely made up, contrived, fake. That’s the point”
“Shocking contradictions” in the gospels.
“Why do you need the spices?” He says it’s “stupid”
“There’s no commandment to add spices to a body” Then says, “but it’s done”
“Why do people come back to the tomb on a Sunday morning to add spices? Why?”
“No one goes back to the tomb on Sunday morning” “Why would you do that? Why?”
“Why would you come back 3 days later and dig up a body and then wash and add spices?” “Where is this in the Torah?” “nowhere, nowhere”.
(At one point, RTS confuses burying in a tomb with under the ground). “Once the body is buried in the….(almost says ground, then says whether in the ground or in a tomb…then has a dopey look on his face like he just got caught), then there’s no issue of smell” (Well, certainly not true with a tomb, where mourners come to visit, etc…)
Many of the accounts in the 4 Gospels differ in degrees. Nothing new there. RTS should already realize this. Nowhere in the Gospels is there any mention of anyone going back to the tomb to “dig up”, “prepare”, “wash” the body of Christ. Mark says they went back to “anoint” Him.
Mark 16: 1And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
[and] anoint ἀλείψωσιν (aleipsōsin)
Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Active - 3rd Person Plural
Strong’s Greek 218: To anoint: festivally, in homage, medicinally, or in anointing the dead. To oil.
No one says anything about women digging up Christ, unwrapping the linen that bound Christ, then washing/preparing him. Doesn’t say that at all. In fact, John says that was already done “as the manner of the Jews is to bury” (I’m assuming that Joseph and Nicodemus washed His body before wrapping it in spices…myrrh and aloes…and linen)
John 19: 38And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.39And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.40Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
So, the body of Christ was already packed with 100lbs of spices (actually about 72 modern pounds). Mary Magdalene wasn’t there to wash and prepare the body (again, probably already done by Joseph and Nicodemus…Mark 15: 46 says that Joseph wrapped his body in linen). She was there to anoint Christ. It was an act of love. Mary and the others didn’t go there with the spices because of any commandment in the Torah. The Torah had absolutely nothing to do with that.
RTS says: “Why would you come back 3 days later and dig up a body and then wash and add spices?” “Where is this in the Torah?” “nowhere, nowhere”. “Where do the spices and anointing come from?” Where do they pull this, it came out of nowhere?
They wouldn’t, because that’s not why the women were there. It has nothing to do with the Torah. It has everything to do with ANOINTING, out of love, doing something good for Christ.
Note the following verses where the Gospels tell us about the expensive perfume/ointment to ANOINT Christ when he was alive, and the motive: And, it looks as if Mary’s (Mary Magdalene) original intention was to save the ointment for Christ’s burial, but then anointed his body before, days before his death on the cross. Read what Christ said of the motive.
An interesting article on the accounts of Jesus being anointed (while alive) by more than one woman? Which Mary, etc…
http://www.livingwithfaith.org/blog/how-many-women-anointed-christ-one-two-or-more
(Also, I’m reading articles on Jewish law where it is stated that ANYONE could anoint ANY dead body...male, female, related or not. More on that later.)
Matthew 26: 6Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper, 7There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat. 8But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste? 9For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. 10When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. 11For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always. 12For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.
Mark 14: 1After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death. 2But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people. 3And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head. 4And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made? 5For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her. 6And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me. 7For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always. 8She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to ANOINT my body to the burying.
Luke 7: 37And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, 38And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. 39Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner. ** 44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath ANOINTED my feet with ointment. 47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. 49And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
John 12:1Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. 2There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. 3Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and ANOINTED the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. 4Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him, 5Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? 6This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. 7Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.
**There would have been nothing or no one on this earth that would have kept Mary Magdalene from anointing Christ in the Tomb, if He had been there when she arrived and she could have gotten to Him (stone, seal, soldiers). How would she have anointed him? Over the linen clothing is my guess, or by removing the napkin that covered his head and then anointing that area, etc... Because there is absolutely no indication that she and the other women would have removed the linen clothing for any reason. And, no need to. Linen is a loose thread-count cloth. Oils and spices would have been immediately absorbed through the cloth onto Christ’s body. In fact, according to Luke 23:55, the women saw how Christ was laid and would have seen/smelled/known that he was wrapped in spices, which in itself is an anointing. The planned anointing was just that, a simple anointing (no unwrapping, no washing, nothing else.) And regardless, Mary Magdalene wasn’t a Jew. She could anoint anyone she wanted or touch Christ’s dead body without fear of Jewish law, etc... Still, there is no indication that she was going to in any way touch the dead body of Christ with her person**
Luke 23: 55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
(By the way, RTS’s view on the deity of Christ is the typical Jewish response. In so stating, there is no way on this earth that the Jewish nation, as a whole, will ever convert to Christianity, as false PTR doctrine believers unequivocally state. The PTR is a fable.)
At the time of Jesus, people descended from one or another of the tribes of Jacob's children are Israelites, but lumped together under the class referred to generally called "Jews," who may or may not practice the religious procedures written down by Moses, but are Jews by descent, not by their religious practices. From them by descent for sure are the "Sephardic" (Spanish) Jews still really Biblically Hebrews.
There is now a broad, overwhelming community of yjose titled "Ashkenazi" who are descended from predominantly Gentile Turko-Iranic areas, accepted as "Jewish" for their long-ago adoption of the religion as a cultural matter, as proselytes, not because of Hebraic descent.
So them, a person like Saul of Tarsus, descended from the tribe of Benjamin,but converted to the Way taught by Jesus' other disciples (called "Christian" by Syrian mockers) was a Christian (by his religious observation) Jew (by Hebraic descent).
Is Gad Elmaleh no longer Jewish, as accounting for his change of identity with Christianity? Possibly, but if his descent is from one of the Israelite tribe, he is still and always will be, a Jew. In that case he has become a Christian Jew, no matter what new name he is identified by..
I’m rethinking what I stated about Mary Magdalene not being Jewish. One “expert” I read from says no. One says possibly of Jewish descent but in all ways acting as a Gentile. Regardless, it doesn’t change what I wrote in my response to you.
It’s only 14:23 long.
Well bless yer pea-pickin’ heart girl!
I guess you ain’t enough of a “bible scholar” ‘round here.
Why don’t you want to hear a Rabbi’s take on the New Testament?
Isn't this place GREAT?!
Why not?
Someone has to do the dishes and make the beds.
There was a person who sent ten different puns to friends, in the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. Unfortunately, no pun in ten did.
I actually found it very informative. I was happy to do it.
I imagine you would be.
Although we disagree on many points of ‘discussion’ here, you always have a plethora of information ready to share with anyone.
That’s pretty good, Elsie!
“Why don’t you want to hear a Rabbi’s take on the New Testament?”
Tell ya what, Els. You go listen to him and come back and ask that stupid question of yours one more time.
I have not a clue as to why a supposed Christian would be floating Tovia Singer around. Beginning to be a little suspicious given the other thread.
"Women must not pretend to be men, and men must not pretend to be women. The Lord your God is disgusted with people who do that." Link: Deuteronomy 22:5 (CEV)
"I am the Lord All-Powerful, and I never change." Link: Malachi 3:6a (CEV)
Ah - another joke!
At least you've indicated it here with the old school smiley face.
You are SO late to the game.
This was played out long ago on FR.
But, if it ups your testosterone, then go for it.
I love the smell of a pissing contest early in the evening.
My lifted snoot can savor the aroma of the kickoff team, as it tries for maximum distance on the field.
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