Posted on 03/07/2022 10:12:46 AM PST by impimp
Found variants of this on two sources on the internet and it is also what seems reasonable:
“Russia claims it will stop the war immediately if Ukraine agrees to:
- cease military action - change constitution to enshrine neutrality - recognize Crimea as Russian territory - recognize the Russian-controlled areas of Donetsk and Luhansk as independent states”
So what is Ukraine’s problem? Accept the reasonable terms and move on. Reject them and face war.
As long as America is sanctioning and demonizing Russia then we are weakening the dollar’s position as the global reserve currency. I want us to be friends with Russia and I want them to be our trading partner. Demonization of Russia does not serve America’s interest.
Not really. Few here appreciate that a civil war began in 2014 with the Maidan coup, engineered by Nuland and endorsed by none other than Joe Biden. Their cronies are all now fabulously rich, with the Ukrainians having been screwed. This cannot be repeated enough IMHO.
Nailed it. Well done.
Demonization of Russia serves the interests of the New World Order and that is who is running the USA.
Russia would see American oil production cut to 0 barrels to solidify its own position as a supplier of oil. Any country that wants to see America weak and dependent on others for its energy is no friend of the US.
I don't oppose Putin's war because I love the "New World Order", however you define that. I oppose Putin and all his works because I love the USA.
And if Mexico demanded those border areas of the U.S. with majority Hispanic populations? Would that be a better analogy?
Exactly so. I'm not seeing much difference between the anti-Ukraine folks on this site and the leftists who think my state should be returned to Mexico.
I agree that Putin probably finds the Rats to be useful idiots. It would be interesting to see how many environmental groups who oppose US oil production are being funded in rubles...
Not BS.
Russia gets a lot of respect/credence/fear due to the outcome of their forces in 1945.
That was 77 years ago. Two + full generations.
People post here and bring up the exploits of Soviet military might with some kind of otherworldly deference.
Getting their axes kicked by little ole Ukraine is going to cost them, is what I mean. It m not talking about oil. Some folks may argue that’s far from factual, I don’t know.
However, it is apparent Russia wants out of this mess. That. To me is a sign that they’re doing poorly, militarily.
The effects of their horrible demographics could catching up on them. They no longer have the population for human wave warfare.
They seem to be focused on the Ukraine. Their website has quite a bit of Ukrainian entries.
No mention of any Clinton.
Notably, you are criticizing THEM but offering ZERO information to counter their straightforward facts. Zero. That is STILL an argument from silence. It’s like teaching a chimp calculus, but this logical and inductive reasoning is nowhere near as difficult.
Not BS. Russia gets a lot of respect/credence/fear due to the outcome of their forces in 1945.
***Then they can afford to own up to the fact that they helped START that war by invading Poland in 1939.
That was 77 years ago. Two + full generations.
***And their Poland invasion was when they were allied with the NAZIs, 83 years ago.
People post here and bring up the exploits of Soviet military might with some kind of otherworldly deference.
***Because they are Russia apologists and appeasers.
Getting their axes kicked by little ole Ukraine is going to cost them, is what I mean.
***They’re just slowed down, they’re not halted. They’ve got all the advantages.
It m not talking about oil. Some folks may argue that’s far from factual, I don’t know.
***If everyone has lost so much regard for Russia, yet that doesn’t cause them to boycott Russian [stolen Ukrainian] oil, then there is very very little ‘lost regard’.
However, it is apparent Russia wants out of this mess. That. To me is a sign that they’re doing poorly, militarily.
***To others it is a sign that they are acting exactly how a tyrant acts.
The effects of their horrible demographics could catching up on them. They no longer have the population for human wave warfare.
***They have a bigger army than the Ukes, more tanks, more aircraft, more of everything. Wars are not won or lost on demographics these days — they are won by the highest technology more often than anything else.
Kevmo: Oh, okay then since it was SO obvious, feel free to point to its Wikipedia page.
FrithingAtTheMouth: How the world has changed when Freepers throw in with
***When your enemy is right you acknowledge it. That’s a sign of an independent thinker, of which you OBVIOUSLY are not.
Hunter and Joe Biden, Google, Facebook, Obama, the Clintons, James Clapper, the Democrat party, the MSM, Lindsay Graham, Mittens and others.
***You’re just stuck with Inside-the-box-thinking. You let others do your thinking for you. So let them post for you as well.
I have gipped this turn of a phrase from Aaron Mate.
https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia?s=r.
***I don’t click on clickbait.
Also discussed was former boxer and opposition figure Vitaly Klitschko, but he was quickly ruled out.
***What makes you think I GAF about your video?
“I don’t think Klitsch should go into government,” Nuland said. “I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think it’s a good idea.” One reason was Klitschko’s proximity to the European Union. Despite McCain’s warm words for the EU before the Maidan crowd, the Europeans had annoyed Washington by supporting a compromise proposal that would leave Yanukovych in power. As Nuland put it to Pyatt: “Fuck the EU.”
***That whole paragraph amounts to one giant red herring. Look, a squirrel!
The two US officials settled on technocrat Arseniy Yatsenyuk. “Yats is the guy,” Nuland decreed. The only outstanding matter was securing the blessing of the then-Vice President, Joe Biden and his then-senior advisor, Jake Sullivan, “for an atta-boy and to get the deets [details] to stick.”<\i>
***We are talking about how 44million Ukes are subject to tyranny due to military invasion. What the frack do I care about one guy’s corruption in all that sea of crap? It’s like handing out speeding tickets at the Indianapolis 500.
You are long time Freeper Kevmo, but your memory is short.
***It’s shorter even than your criticism because I could care less about your video.
I have zero desire to fight for Ukraine or really any other country outside the US for that matter so that argument isn’t really relevant.
***Yeah I know, your desire is to sell folks down the river who did the right thing and took NUKEs off the table. Your desire is to set everything up so that no other country ever trusts us, ever. And with good reason. You don’t care how many tens of millions of lives your pacifist appeasement leads to loss, like what happened with Hitler in Sudetenland.
Moldova has little strategic value. Western Ukraine includes a portion of the Carpathians and decreases the defensive western client state border by half. Moldova is not on a path to the Mariupol to Baku salient - where Staligrad was fought.
***Moldova’s strategic value is in instilling fear of this tyrant.
They just need to work out how they would get paid for it. It’s not like you can trust the US to pay them even with a signed agreement in place.
I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make. At the risk of repetition, your comment cited to a 2017 poll (which really aren’t valid in that part of the world) conducted by a very well funded (propaganga) organization. Yet, you cited this as authoritative, with a great deal of snark, for an unquestionable conclusion full of blood lust that must be drawn today. Not persuasive dude.
Sorry. Your not worth bickering with. Freegards.
thanks for conceding my points
I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make.
***That is because you do not know how to use critical thinking skills. It’s a gigantic mystery to you.
At the risk of repetition,
***I got no reason to listen to repeated dog-returning-to-its-vomit arguments from you.
your comment cited to a 2017 poll
***And so far you have generated ZERO counter information. ZERO. Argument from silence.
(which really aren’t valid in that part of the world)
***Bullshiite.
conducted by a very well funded (propaganga) organization.
***Feel free to lay down some facts in that direction. My prediction is that you will not.
Yet, you cited this as authoritative,
***It is FAR more authoritative than your silence. That’s why arguing from silence is invalid.
with a great deal of snark,
***You are delivering far more snark, relying on an argument from silence.
for an unquestionable conclusion full of blood lust that must be drawn today.
***Your writing doesn’t make sense. Take a writing class.
Not persuasive dude.
***You are not persuadable. Part of the problem is your complete inability to reason critically. Part of it is your hideboundness. And part of it is simple stupidity. Take a critical thinking class.
USAID sponsored other implementing agencies actively supporting democratic consolidation in Ukraine, working directly with NDI, IRI, Freedom House, InterNews, and ABA/CEELI. The work of these groups in tandem with local activists and grassroots groups helped meet the demand of millions of Ukrainians for enhanced democracy and improved governance. Numerous international institutions also deserve commendation. Those involved in efforts complementary to SEAUP were: the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Project Coordinator Office in Ukraine, the Election Law Institute, the Razumkov Center, the Democratic Initiatives Foundation, and the Agency for Legislative Initiatives (ALI). SEAUP worked closely with the OSCE in promoting the professionalism of Ukraine’s relatively inexperienced election commissioners.
https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PNADE309.pdf (Celebrating the most obvious coups in the history of coups)
* * *
USAID Chair Samantha Power joined the Obama State Department transition team in late November 2008. She served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Multilateral Affairs and Human Rights on the National Security Council from January 2009 to February 2013.
***
Democratic Initiatives Foundation $80,000 Kyiv, Ukraine To promote free and fair elections in Ukraine. - Charles Stewart MOTT FOUNDATION Annual Report 1999
Special Projects Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation New York, NY $20,000 – 12 mos. Clinton Global Initiative
- MOTT FOUNDATION Annual Report 2016
* * *
This grant will provide general purposes support to the William J. Clinton Foundation, a public charity established in 1997 by the 42nd President of the United States. The mission of the organization is to strengthen the capacity of people throughout the world to meet the challenges of global interdependence. To advance this mission, the foundation operates a number of domestic and international programs, including the Alliance for a Healthier Generation, the Clinton Foundation HIV/AIDS Initiative, the Clinton Climate Initiative, the Clinton Global Initiative, and the Urban Enterprise Initiative. The foundation works principally through partnerships with like-minded individuals, organizations, corporations, and governments, often serving as an incubator for new policies and programs.
Charles Stewart Mott Foundation Website.
***
USAID Ukrain RFP, with propaganda instructions embedded within it.
https://www.usaid.gov/sites/default/files/documents/1863/REVISED_RFP_72012120R00003.pdf
***
So, to answer my rhetorical question "How close is the the Democratic Initiatives Foundation to the Clinton Global Initiative?" This Ukranian Think Tank is directly connected to the Clinton Global Initiative through the US Department of State and its servient NGO's. But, Kevmo, like nearly all of what you have posed in response to my comments, you fail to sense propaganda when it is right under your nose. So keep on pulling for an escalation in Ukraine and TTFN.
Dude. Guess who was prez in 1994 when the Ukes, the US, and the Russians got together and dismantled Ukraine’s Nukes? Bill Clinton. Just because there’s a CONNECTION doesn’t mean it’s ONLY a propaganda machine.
Why is it so difficult for you to believe there’s an organization that wants democracy for the Ukraine? It’s no different than an organization that would want democracy for Namibia. So let’s say this Namibian democracy organization wants to find out just how many people want democracy versus straightforward strongman politics. And they find that it’s 69%. How would such numbers be tainted? They want to KNOW. And more to the point, when they come up with their result and publish it at 69%, for YOU to refute it means you gotta have more reliable results and better information, which YOU DO NOT HAVE. So you throw darts, from your SILENCE of information. It is called arguing from silence for a reason — because your information source is SILENT. It is a classic fallacy. Until you come up with more-than-silent INFORMATION, you are simply arguing from silence. Sour grapes be damned.
Actually you are partially correct.
Frankly, if we limited and avoided foreign entanglements countries could trust us far more.
You can call it pacifist appeasement, I’ll stick to America first and suggest all this support should be going to our southern border
Secondly, polls are meaningless, when the respondents believe that their answers will not be kept confidential and in this case fed directly to the Azov Battalion or their ilk. So it is pure Polyanna if you think a poll will have anything valid to do with policy execution in this part of the world.
So you fall into your own a logical trap because the absence of information, which according to you cannot support any conclusion or positive action, exists by the function of propaganda.
Furthermore, if you are relying upon polls as the fondation for policy in the Ukraine, your judgment is based upon western standards, which have no correlation to politics in this region. Western political systems formed out of trading societies, often maritime. So our political systems have a transactional nature to them. You vote and its done. A poll approximates a vote, which will sway a polititian every time.
Ukraine has been the site of the most massive and destructive invasions, genocides and accidents known to man. Survival from these events occurred, at least to the vast majority of people, due to the exercise of power, not a vote. Do the histories celebrate a vote that took place before the Mongols burned Kiev to the ground and murdered its entire population? Obviously not. Does history record the Mongols were devils to be defeated at all costs and Ivan the Teribble is a Savior?
So by all means keep drumming Putin bad, which worked so well with orange man bad, and keep your eyes closed to whatever agency the Zelinsky regime has in the creation of this conflict. Because after all, right and wrong is so easy to see.
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