Posted on 03/03/2022 5:11:24 AM PST by EBH
Up until recently I didn’t believe it was that large an issue, mistakenly thinking that it was a matter of “catching up” but now I know it’s worse than anyone has addressed and suspect it’s not solvable.
***Some of us have been saying that it was that bad all along. So how did YOU ‘catch up’ to understanding how deep and how wide the problem is? And how can those of us who understood the problem all along reach people who are obviously mistaken in their thinking? What are your learnings in this situation?
So eugenics is your answer?
Having worked in education for over 30 years .... They have had 12 years of education on the taxpayer’s dime and they chose to continually not use that time to improve themselves.
***Nothing changes if nothing changes, to quote a phrase from 12 step programs. If you had spent those 30 years in a system of education with vouchers, where the kids who are motivated to get every penny’s worth of 12 years to get as much college education as they could, and where the kids who were unmotivated get to sit in disruptable babysitting ‘classroooms’ not pulling down others like crabs in a bucket... well then shiite woulda changed where shiite shoulda changed.
it would appear to me that what you are seeing is that it is the behaviors associated with people who are education resistant that lead to low literacy and low incomes and not the other way around. The schools are full of educationally resistant kids, and in the inner cities the numbers of JERKS (Just Educationally Resistant Kids) increases all the time.
The pattern to me seems to be fatherless children, with extremely young uneducated mothers who prefer taking their government checks to get their nails done, and iphones rather than making sure their kids learn and read. No discipline is instilled in their children and they cannot function in a setting that expects personal responsibility and self control. Gang membership, theft, constant fighting and disruptive behavior in classes is the norm. These are the reasons they are not literate, and they don’t care that they can’t read and don’t know anything. Literacy and learning are not culturally supported and not supported in their families.
Teaching them to be more literate, which they will resist, is not going to take away the other causes of lower income. For most that I have seen, they are “poor” because they continually make very poor choices and do not take responsibility for themselves.
I don’t mind that the Mills are lost when it comes to basic knowledge. Cursive gives the over-30s a secret language with which to communicate and mock them, if nothing else.
Besides, it’s a source of great amusement to see one trying to figure out - and failing - how to use a rotary phone.
If the SHTF the poor youngsters are gonna be the first to go extinct. Just no cellphone service will by itself likely drive them to hari-kari anyway - “How can I survive if I can’t call UberEats? It’s just like that Biafra thing my grandparents told me about! Help me, Sally Struthers!!”
How about ban electronics from schools until 80% can read at appropriate level...READING ( books) WRITING (with a pencil) and ARITHMETIC (by hand)
It’s kinda human nature. When you get your paycheck from the guvmint the first place you look for ‘solutions’ is the guvmint.
The guvmint is reasonably good at being a watchdog. I don’t need my pilot to be a guvmint employee, but it works that the guvmint runs the FAA. So why do so many people think that our teachers should be guvmint employees?
The Chinese had a grand empire but fell behind the West in technology because they basically invented bureaucracy.
Being a grammarian isn’t a sign of literacy, it’s a sign of anal retentiveness. We have had plenty of grammarians in the teaching professions, not enough linguists.
the people who are falling under the 6th grade bench mark in reading and math, essentially are not able to think critically.
***That is probably true. Critical thinking has become a rare capability. You can even see this on FR.
And importing millions more from our southern border isn’t helping either.
Good analysis, your #13.
Only Ukraine’s border is important !
I've had a couple of managers who either disliked reading and writing or were very bad at it. One, in particular, had a couple of us that he turned to for analyzing or creating all but the simplest of documents. I suspect he was dyslexic. He was subsequently promoted at least 2 times.
I've been insulated, surrounded with family and friends that are quite literate. I've worked with white collar and high-skilled blue collar professionals. I did a lot of staff work working alongside some experts. I've worked in technical companies on projects and processes that require a high level of attention to detail.
I would rarely run into situations outside of work where words mattered. Over the last several years I've gotten pulled into processes and had to communicate with larger groups of people and have been appalled at the experience. The simplest of narratives escape many of them. It's not just foreigners or younger individuals.
I lied to myself as long as I could, saying "they're very busy and didn't give it the proper level of attention" or "they're rushing through it". No, it's not time management, priorities, or a skillset they lack; it's a mindset. They don't have it nor do they care to attain it.
E-mail and the internet pushed literacy requirements to higher levels at the same time a large segment of the population are unwilling or unable to embrace them. Sadly, I think a large part of it is that they have nothing to say, so why bother learning how to articulate it?
I wonder if the only way to reach ignorant people like me who wouldn't believe literacy is as bad as it is would be to have them "sit in the chair" so to speak. No one would believe it until they experience it, especially since it's language. We read what is sent to us, posted, or published. We don't see all the chicken-scratch, spluttering, and word salads at the point of origin. We also don't see the responses of individuals who have the narratives fly right over their heads.
Gotta strongly means test that—or we’ll just be further enslaving the average taxpayer to foot the bill for the privagte schools of the wealthy.
Apart from the material cost of illiterate people running around.... have you had to deal with the doctor’s secretary, a customer service rep... etc., lately??
It’s like talking to Burt and Ernie
When I was in 7th grade I saw a 1 page letter my brother had written. He was in a Master’s Degree Program. His wife found 2 sentences that needed correction, so I asked if I could help correct it. I found about 25 more corrections.
So I’ll apply my 7th grade grammarian approach to what you wrote. I found that it is quite ironic for you to be commenting on literacy and proficiency.
I dont
***don’t
think this number is correct or
***...or that a...
a 6th grade level is functional. Having worked with the poor, having friends who are Social workers,
***If you’re gonna capitalize Social then Capitalize Social Workers...
nobody has heard anyone over the age of 8 say they cannot read in over 20 years.
***This entire sentence is poorly written. Here’s how I would have written it: “I have worked with the poor, and I have had friends who were Social Workers. None of us, in over 20 years, have heard of anyone over the age of 8 who could not read. “
Hard to read, Need text to speech to write, not enough attention span, to violent, to drugged up to read sure, but cannot function at a 6th grade level (remember suburban kids all read lord of the rings or harry potter at that age) Sure spanish speakers need help, but most all can fill out the forms for public aid really well.
***Again, very poorly written runon sentence. Here’s how I would have written it: Most of the complaints about those who lack proficiency include: “It’s hard to read”; “They need text to speech in order to write”; “They do not have a large enough attention span” ; “Their situation is too violent”; “They are too drugged up to read”. Sure, that’s true but to say they cannot function at a 6th grade level is incorrect. Remember that suburban kids all read “Lord of the Rings” or Harry Potter at that age. Sure, non-native Spanish speakers need some help, but most of these subliterates can fill out the forms for public aid really well.
They also write long form sentences very well when it is toy donation time around Christmas. I read well over a hundred donation requests last year, as someone LD I
***What is the point of using an acronym when most of your audience doesn’t know what it stands for? It is very poor manners, very poor form.
recognize the items that probably get graded down by pencil necks, but the population to 80%
***... but about 80% of the population ...
can function
***at a 6th grade level.
90% can function
***...well enough ...
to get paid, 97% can function
***...well enough...
to get the next
***...drug..,
fix.
3% need help to get by,
***Period. End of sentence.
They already have that
***...kind of assistance...
for some other need
***Period. End of sentence.
classified as a handicaps.
***It is classified as a handicap.
Over 40 years ago, in my high school, we had to take a literature course.
***I took those literature courses. They were useless. Looking back, we scoffed at the Home Economics course. THAT was a course I shoulda taken. Far more useful.
Admittedly, my high school experience was tainted because I went to arguably the worst high school in the nation, even though it was in an upper middle class neighborhood. The high school in town where all the minorities lived was shut down, and the kids were bused to our school. A woman who taught at the school wrote a book about her experience, it became the hit movie “Dangerous Minds” with Michelle Pfeiffer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlmont_High_School#Dangerous_Minds
High school is a waste of time. Kids should just skip it and go straight to community college.
Why means test it? It’s their money, they pay taxes too.
Bump, full disclosure, I can do both
;)
I dated a stripper. She was a Master’s degreed individual who was a teacher but made 10 times more as a stripper. Cute as hell. Left to go to Vegas. Made serious money.
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