Posted on 10/02/2021 9:37:51 PM PDT by Paul R.
For home defense at a very budget constrained price, what do FReepers (or their sources) think: Semi-auto or pump action 12 ga. shotgun? Semi-auto will deliver the most stopping power in a very short time, but might it be less reliable? Other considerations?
Even i can hear it now, ClickClick.
Ooooh!
FR gun porn!
In my bedroom I have a Henry repeating arms 410 lever action shotgun. The first round is non-lethal (rubber bullets) and the rest are standard shotgun.
410 is plenty of power for indoor purposes and I won’t blow holes in more than one wall at a time.
Not cheap, but good.
Then there’s the 9mm on my side of the bed and the .380 on the Mrs. side of the bed.
My one shot was with arm extended. 3” shell loaded to whatever my buddy loaded them to. I have a pound of lead in the butt of the gun, so the recoil wasn’t as bad as it might have otherwise been.
Paid $200 for a Saiga 12 back when the AWB expired. .410s were going for $150 plus an FFL pass-through.
If you go for the Aguila Mini shell option, then you’ll need the Opsol attachment to help load shells reliably.
A guy i know has it on his mossberg and it works well- feeding mini shells reliably.
https://www.opsolmini-clip.com/
I really like to shoot my SA-20, no doubt it would get the job done.
Operating the pump to deliver rapid fire under extreme stress? I would find that to be a problem.
Inbefore all the “you really need 8 gauge” people.
Yes it does.
Outstanding for disclosing your location.
I get fifteen mini shells in my Mossy 500 using the Opsol, and the feeding is smooth. The cuff holds mini slugs. The mag tube is full of buckshot.
Have a lot of experience with meth users, do you?
"That sound" is perfect for disclosing your location. "No sound" is what you want, so your supersonic shot column ends the threat before the "boom" gets to him.
But what's more important than the type gun is the type of ammunition. Some people think birdshot is adequate for HD/SD, but using a shell meant for quail and rabbits on something the size of a human is not conducive to your survival.
This photo might be too gruesome for some so I'll just post a link to it. It's a young man who took a chest full of birdshot and is still standing. Judging from the spread I'd guesstimate the range to have been about 15 yards. That's the sort of terminal effect you can expect from birdshot
Nothing smaller than #1 buckshot will have a high probability of a minimum of 12-inches of penetration at all ranges a shotgun is customarily employed at (data here). Anything smaller (including #4 buck) probably won't penetrate that deep even across the length of your living room.
And according to the FBI's Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness, 12 inches is the minimum you should trust your life to. Yes I know a shottie isn't a handgun but a wound don't know what kind of gun it was that created it, all it knows is how much damage was delivered.
The most salient point made in Special Agent Patrick's report is:
"... Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, 'too little penetration will get you killed'...."
However, #1 buckshot probably will go through at least three and maybe four (or five) interior sheetrock walls. I happen to like the fact that 00 will kill from the next room over because if someone breaks into my house, I have the "home field advantage." I might be able to use my intimate knowledge of the lay-out of the house to shoot them without ever letting them see me (also why my bedside AR is loaded with barrier-blind ammunition). And yes, I have security cameras so I can tell for certain it isn't a member of my household coming home from a night on the town stumbling drunk.
But your living situation might make the risk of overpenetration unacceptable. If that's the case, maybe you should look into less lethal weapons, like beanbag guns (only those that can't be loaded with 'regular' shotgun shells), OC spray, or electronic restraints.
And oh by the way, racking a pump in the belief that the noise will scare off the burglar would be really stupid, for three reasons.
#1. Eventually everything breaks. Every pump made eventually will fail, if you use it long enough. Yours might decide to fail the one time you needed it to scare off a burglar. Whereas if you already had a round in the chamber, you'd enter the fray knowing you had at least the one shot.
#2. You're giving up the element of surprise. And it doesn't matter whether the intruder has a gun or not, if he's a hard luck job and he hears you coming, he might still try to ambush you when you enter the room where he is. Or worse, if he has a gun of his own, you've just given him the warning that might allow him to get off the first shot.
#3. After you cycle the pump, there's an empty space in the magazine tube. So you'd be voluntarily walking into a situation that as far as you know might turn out to be a gunfight with one less round of ammunition at your disposal than if you hadn't decided to play John Wayne.
And speaking of John Wayne, if you're going to scare off the burglar by racking the pump, I'd recommend you also wear a John Wayne Halloween mask. Because if he's frightened by the sound of the shotgun, the sight of the Duke should put him in full flight. Then you can go back to bed without having to deal with the police.
Describe for me the situation you imagine might happen where an attacker is too close to you to ratchet a pump shotgun but far enough away for you to grab, point and shoot an auto?
Make sure your homeowners and medical insurance is the very best you can buy. Your sort of cowboy wannabee is a sure candidate for an accident shooting incident.
Right
One can simply forget to pull the trigger
Yet another flaw endemic to weapns
Most pump fetish is fueled by the sound
Movies
The conversation has strayed away from the only point I was making which was the racking of a shotgun is not an effective deterrent. That’s it.
FYI, My pistol is right next to me at night. My shotgun is for if I have to go outside for any reason.
Autoloaders make “that sound” too when racking the first round.
On the one hand racking is indeed a distinctive sound; on the other hand it also gives away your position. I still like it!
You also need to factor in number of intruders.
And how fast you can reload whatever you’re considering using. And reloading under extreme stress.
I guess you could get 2x the number of rounds in a side-saddle with the minishells.
Stop! You should consider 8+1 tac shotguns, if possible. See Mossberg. Or, buy both 4+1 shotguns—semi and pump.
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