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Perhaps, Bags; the difference is that Les Mis was composed as a BROADWAY MUSICAL..it actually feels differently than an opera would. Yet, it has the elements that any opera might have..

Well, thanks for the nice post.

I was thinking about this just yesterday. I wanted to solve the riddle of how I could love Les Miserables yet hate opera, since they are the same in many ways. And I figured it out.

Its two things. First and easiest to explain is the language. Part of my enjoyment of music is the vocals and lyrics. The combination of the music and they lyrics paints a picture in my mind and makes me think and/or brings back fond (or terrible) memories.

With opera, I can't do that. The fat guy or gal is telling me absolutely nothing. I cannot subsist on music alone. I can't make the human element manifest.

Now this one is more hard to explain. Its the voice. The SOUND of the voice when singing operaretically seems inhuman to me. In Les Miserable, not only can I connect the story to the sound, but the singing voices seem like a sound that is natural to the human voice.

Opera voices seem disconnected from humanity and I can't connect the human to the sound. I think that's why I don't like hard rock 'devil music' too. Most of the time, they make a sound that is unnatural to the human voice.

I cannot base my enjoyment of music on an appreciation of skill, for surely opera singing requires skill and is art, art being exclusive to people that can do something extraordinary that not just anyone can do.

So yea, I'll cut this short by saying that opera singing just makes me cringe (I hate using that word) inside just like devil music does and for the same reason.

I'm very glad we had this conversation. I like of know why I feel they way I do about this world.

Too bad Queen isn't around anymore. They could write a song called 'Opera Slide' and we could use it as a soundtrack for this convo.

Felony rape charge doesn’t apply if victim got drunk on her own, Minnesota Supreme Court rules

Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker.

Francois Khalil, then 20, picked up an intoxicated woman outside a Dinkytown bar in 2017, took her back to a North Minneapolis home and raped her after she passed out on a couch, the woman testified, according to court records. A Hennepin County jury in 2019 convicted him of third-degree criminal sexual conduct.

Minnesota Supreme Court Justice Paul Thissen wrote, that attorneys for both sides agree the facts of the case constitute a crime, but a less serious one: fifth-degree criminal sexual conduct, a gross misdemeanor, which carries lighter penalties. Prosecutors did not try Khalil on that charge but now could look to recharge him.

So having non-consensual sex with a passed out college girl in MN, is for now, just a 5th degree gross misdemeanor.

Wonder what the Cuomos,Bidens,and Kennedys think?

Late to the opera slide. I’ll have to say that as a musician, opera has been my absolute favorite genre when it comes to performance. But I hardly know more than the very rough outlines of the plots of most of them, let alone the words. I’ve been too busy playing down in the pit to be able to absorb much of that. But for me, it’s just the incredible sound - the music itself suggests enough of the drama going on that I don’t have to know the details to enjoy it. With the right mix of singers combined with the orchestra, it’s a musical “high” for me! I can listen to a recording, and it brings back the memories of the live performance, but it’s not the same thing.

Bags..

I almost agree with you in regard to voices.. for instance, I too greatly cringe at Country singers who sing through their noses (NASALLY).. plus use un-natural phrasing.. good grief..I DO cringe, shudder and generally pass out at such attempts to sing...

However; the finest vocalist in any genre, in my opinion; is FRANK SINATRA, for he understands TECHNICALLY how to sing... breath control, but also PHRASING is extremely important.... tonal quality .. Sinatra’s voice, after all those Camels, and Jack Daniels...came to sound like dark brushed mahogany in the late 1960’s.. but also how to tell a story within song. Just listen to the TECHNICAL aspect of HOW he sings a song. By the way; Sinatra loved Opera, specifically Pavarotti. NO Cringing allowed here!

However; I continue to think that some people who have a problem with Opera, are reacting to highly trained voices, .. I DO think that it takes some time to understand why Opera fans are so CRITICAL of how a vocalist sings...there is a terrific “fight”.. over Elina Garanca for instance... some of us think she is one of the finest Mezzo Sopranos in the world at this moment, while others think she stinks on ice.

We, um.. each have our own opinions.

In regard to “CRINGING at the sound of Operatic voices”...I DO think, as I’ve said; that one must continue to LISTEN to the music...but ALSO, it’s very important to begin to understand what is being said in the vocals. Read the stories, understand what the individual opera, and each individual aria is about. The music may make more sense.

Another point; Americans have very little patience in listening to music sung in another language... they tend to rapidly lose interest if they can’t understand what is being said. This is why it’s important to be familiar with the libretto, translations of each aria into english..

So, Bags.. therein may lie the answer...(1. UNFAMILIARITY with the music itself (2. No ability, or perhaps even desire to understand what is being said in the songs.. “Who’s got time for DAT?”

And, just to be fair ..NOT all opera is filled with screeching, screaming, cacophonous voices. Most Opera arias can be quite beautiful..

Listen to Georges Bizet’s “CARMEN”..I bet when you understand what the play is about, then actually LISTEN to the gorgeous music.. which you’ll possibly be familiar with; because these songs have been around forever, but also have been used in commercials, movies, tv shows.. it’s a great tragic love story, you can find the entire opera on youtube.. it’s written in French.. but there are English subtitles available. Enjoy~! Have Fun! :>)