Coronavirus Live Thread. No 12

3/8/2020

[Vermont Lt]

Continuation of the thread.

[Black Agnes]

I’ve thought about that too.

Baltic Dry Index is recovering. Whether it’s a dead cat bounce or not remains to be seen.

Question is, when’s the low point...?

[LilFarmer]

He’s always been one to do 180 what the crowd is doing lol

[LilFarmer]

@caseyworks
Spokesperson Tim Killian says the facility has received the first batch of patient test results: 35/ 50 test results today. 31 positive, 1 negative, and 3 inconclusive.

Killian says these 35 patients will remain here; hospitals need the bed space. Patients will stay unless their symptoms worsen. Right now 7 patients are showing symptoms.

https://twitter.com/caseyworks/statu...61715575357441

[LilFarmer]

Sorry, bad link: https://twitter.com/caseyworks/status/1237161715575357441

[LilFarmer]

IRELAND
The nation of Ireland has canceled all St. Patrick’s Day parades, including the massive Dublin festivities, over concerns about the spread of the coronavirus.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/09/ireland-cancels-all-st-patricks-day-parades-amid-coronavirus-outbreak/

[cgbg]

I am going to explain "The media is the message" because it is clear the WH does not know or understand the concept.

Marshall McLuhan proposed a very radical idea back in the 1960s--and I think he got it right.

He argued that our entire thought process at the subliminal level is driven by the type of media that is used, and that when media types change that drives revolutionary changes in thought.

--Ancient societies through the middle ages--scribes created individual pieces of art that communicated messages. Only the wealthy could afford to hire the scribes (message: rule by kings or feudal lords or emperors; message: communication is only allowed for the elite and not the masses)

-Then when the printing press was invented the rebellion against kings begin, the rebellion against the Catholic Church began, and eventually the industrial revolution began. Each letter became interchangeable, just like people became interchangeable on the factory floor. In addition, just like individual letters could be a part of communication, people could join in groups to gain liberties.

--Then we go to television. Moving pictures are the message. A society of speed, mobility, rapid change.

--Then (McLuhan didn't get to see it) the Internet. The world communicating with the world in an instant. Change happens much faster. Everything seems out of control. Trust in governments collapse. Everyone can speak, and everyone is part of new and constantly changing groups. This would tie with all of the Woke stuff, every little group claiming their special rights and trying to shout down everybody else.

This stuff works at a subliminal level. None of it is stated, none of it is consciously processed--so that is McLuhan.

So, if you want to successfully communicate with people and gain their confidence, the medium must match your message or you will get anger, fear, resistance, panic that everything is out of control.

Are we going to start quarantines? If yes, then the communication better be from quarantine-line quarters.

The current approach gives the impression that the leaders don't know what they want. We are to social distance but they are not doing so.

Do they want a bottom up response (like one of the speakers said)? Then why are they using a top down medium like the press conference?

Then they they make a statement like visitors to nursing homes should use masks after they have told us that masks don't work and we shouldn't use them.

What is that message? The elderly in nursing homes are more important than everybody else, so we lied to you?

[LilFarmer]

Unverified, but fits accounts from doctors in Italy:

‘I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do.

First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country.

The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity

We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. There are hundreds of pts with severe resp failure and many of them do not have access to anything above a reservoir mask.

Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed.

My friends call me in tears because they see people dying in front of them and they con only offer some oxygen. Ortho and pathologists are being given a leaflet and sent to see patients on NIV. PLEASE STOP, READ THIS AGAIN AND THINK.

We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere, this is the pattern:

1)A few positive cases, first mild measures, people are told to avoid ED but still hang out in groups, everyone says not to panick
2)Some moderate resp failures and a few severe ones that need tube, but regular access to ED is significantly reduced so everything looks great

3)Tons of patients with moderate resp failure, that overtime deteriorate to saturate ICUs first, then NIVs, then CPAP hoods, then even O2.
4)Staff gets sick so it gets difficult to cover for shifts, mortality spikes also from all other causes that can’t be treated properly.

Everything about how to treat them is online but the only things that will make a difference are: do not be afraid of massively strict measures to keep people safe,

f governments won’t do this at least keep your family safe, your loved ones with history of cancer or diabetes or any transplant will not be tubed if they need it even if they are young. By safe I mean YOU do not attend them and YOU decide who does and YOU teach them how to.

Another typical attitude is read and listen to people saying things like this and think “that’s bad dude” and then go out for dinner because you think you’ll be safe.

We have seen it, you won’t be if you don’t take it seriously. I really hope it won’t be as bad as here but prepare.

https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/1237142891077697538?fbclid=IwAR0qXCIn3lhGWN0mGUswy-_rsonaHJWtuKvwzcKlM1Resg-zVUhwEO8z8-w

[LilFarmer]

NJ
Today, 06:34 PM

NJ health officials shift from containment to mitigation of coronavirus
BY Brenda Flanagan, Senior Correspondent | March 9, 2020, 5PM EST
...
State officials on Monday announced five new coronavirus cases; a 27-year-old man from Little Silver, who was probably infected at a medical conference in Boston; and an 83-year-old woman from Hazlet; a 48-year-old from Berkeley Heights in Union County; a 30-year-old in Teaneck; and an 18-year-old in Clifton whose case is linked to the exploding coronavirus cluster around a New Rochelle synagogue in New York.
...
The state’s got 24 persons under investigation with local test results pending. So far about half of New Jersey’s counties await coronavirus test results. Port Authority Chief Rick Cotton tested positive, according to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

https://www.njtvonline.org/news/video/nj-health-officials-shift-from-containment-to-mitigation-of-coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR1KQnnrN5u6gkPyXuGGHzWylLNfGfWE7zJOo9CqchB9l2KcD1jO4qHTBZQ

[Fury]

Normally, I shy away from Quora articles, but the one has legit references:

https://www.quora.com/Can-infectious-diseases-like-the-flu-be-spread-thru-the-mail-and-packages?share=1

[calenel]

Second

[blueplum]

“they” do. But we’ll never know. HIPAA

[fatima]

Of course it is.We are stocked up.I got 5 cans of Beef Ravioli.:)

[LilFarmer]

WA

https://www.njtvonline.org/news/video/nj-health-officials-shift-from-containment-to-mitigation-of-coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR1KQnnrN5u6gkPyXuGGHzWylLNfGfWE7zJOo9CqchB9l2KcD1jO4qHTBZQ

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/tacoma-school-shuts-down-after-staff-member-tests-positive-coronavirus/B4DJ37LP5BB2TC7PVYJS3U6QZQ/

[Black Agnes]

This isn’t ‘flu’.

And if my fedex guy has it, or anyone who has touched it within the past 48hrs for sure (probably longer with this virus)...it’s on there.

Ditto the mail lady.

Most packages have ‘tape’. Which is a non porous surface.

Better to be safe...

This virus can survive 9 days on some surfaces like plastic. You know those little plastic bubbles they pack with stuff in the boxes? Yeah, those...

etc.

BTW, there’s a case in Shelby county TN. I haven’t heard where this person works. If it’s at FedEx...

[SE Mom]

Yeah..pretty much how I imagine it will be here -in pockets.

Triage and emergency medicine move fast- governments move slowly. In crisis when they collide it can get ugly.

No one is freaking out at my hospital, but there’s anxiety..just waiting for it.

[calenel]

The claim is that it was the real cause of so may deaths during the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918-1919.

[Black Agnes]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4659470/

We posted this link very early on in these threads. Over a month ago.

It’s not really ‘known’ how long this one can survive. The answers we’ve gotten for ‘common cold’ virus from the ‘experts’ have just been plain wrong and easily disproven. So I don’t really trust them to extrapolate that data to this particular virus.

[Fury]

This isn’t ‘flu’.

Understand, but you mentioned transmission of Spanish Flu by mail. I looked for articles regarding that. If there are other articles you know of, let us know.

[mrsmith]

Interesting report on mechanics of health care response.

Suspect we’ll be seeing reports of health care facilities being an early vector.

[mrsmith]

Frankly, I’m bowled over by the advance in genomics!