Posted on 02/24/2020 6:54:56 AM PST by Kaslin
According to a new Lifeway Research survey, while 47 percent of “mainline” pastors now support same-sex “marriage,” only 8 percent of evangelical pastors do. More specifically, “Presbyterian or Reformed (49%), Methodist (47%), Lutheran (35%) and Christian/Church of Christ pastors (20%) are more likely to see nothing wrong with same-sex marriage than Baptist (3%) or Pentecostal pastors (1%).”
None of this is surprising in the least.
First, as noted by Scott McConnell, executive director of LifeWay Research, “The movement we see among pastors’ views of same-sex marriage has less to do with their denominational tradition than their view of the Bible.”
Accordingly, those who hold most faithfully to the authority of Scripture will be the least inclined to change their views on homosexuality. Put another way, those who believe the Bible to be God’s inspired, unchanging Word will be the least likely to compromise their convictions based on societal changes.
“An evangelical distinctive,” McConnell continued, “is the ultimate authority the Bible has over one’s beliefs despite changing cultural perspectives. It is not surprising then that evangelical pastors across different denominations continue to view same-sex marriage as wrong through this lens.”
That’s because the Bible is unambiguous in its condemnation of homosexual unions. Under all circumstances, regardless of how much love or commitment is involved, they are sinful in God’s sight and contrary to His established order.
At the same time, mercy and forgiveness are offered for all, including practicing homosexuals. The Word is equally clear on this (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11).
That’s why, when I had a mini-debate with “gay Christian” poster boy Matthew Vines, he could not offer a single Scripture verse in support of his position. (For a graphic illustration of the scriptural bankruptcy of the “gay Christian” argument, see here.)
When it comes to “mainline” pastors, which these days primarily refers to “progressive” or “liberal” pastors, they are more inclined to interpret Scripture through the lens of contemporary culture than to evaluate contemporary culture through the lens of Scripture.
As a result, they are more likely to disbelieve fundamental, biblical truths, including: the Bible as God’s infallible Word; salvation coming only through Jesus; the virgin birth and the resurrection; eternal reward and eternal punishment.
That’s why it’s no surprise that these same pastors, who have waffled on the most foundational issues, will waffle on things like gay “marriage” too. What else could we expect?
Ironically, it is the Pentecostals, who are often derided for their belief that the Spirit continues to speak today, who are the most conservative of all, with only 1 percent of their pastors affirming same-sex “marriage.”
But that, too, should come as no surprise. That’s because the reason Pentecostals believe that prophecy and tongues are for today is because they believe that the Word of God means what it says. That’s also why they reject same-sex “marriage.”
Pentecostals also emphasize the importance of the new birth and life in the Spirit. This means that the vast majority of their adherents will have a greater devotion to the Lord and His Word than those of “mainline” churches, which often downplay the concept of personal relationship with God.
All this would be in keeping with a 10-country religious survey published in 2006, titled, “Spirit and Power – A Ten Country Survey of Pentecostals.”
The survey indicated that, “In addition to their distinctive religious experiences, renewalists also stand out for the intensity of their belief in traditional Christian doctrines and practices. For instance, in eight of the 10 countries surveyed (all except the U.S. and Chile), majorities of nonrenewalist Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word; but this view is even more common among pentecostals than among non-renewalist Christians. Similarly, large majorities of all Christians, renewalists and nonrenewalists alike, believe that miracles still occur today as in ancient times. But this belief tends to be even more intense among pentecostals and, to a lesser extent, charismatics than among nonrenewalist Christians.”
It is true that, according to the recent Lifeway Research survey, the more educated the pastor, the more likely he (or she) was to accept same-sex “marriage.” Specifically, “Those with a doctorate (27%) or a master’s degree (32%) are more likely to support same-sex marriage than pastors with a bachelor’s degree (9%) or no college degree (6%).”
But, once again, it is also more likely that many of those who pursued more advanced degrees view the Bible through a more modernist lens than those who chose not to pursue such degrees. Education, in and of itself, does not guarantee orthodoxy. This is especially so when the seminaries attended are themselves liberal.
Interestingly, “Pastors of churches with fewer than 50 in attendance are more likely to see nothing wrong with two people of the same gender getting married (33%) than those at churches with 100 or more in attendance (19%).”
This would confirm what I have written about numerous times, namely, that “progressive Christianity” is doomed to fail.
That’s why, while 47 percent of “mainline” pastors now affirm same-sex relations, they represent an increasingly small minority of American pastors as a whole as their congregations are dwindling. In stark contrast, Pentecostal-Charismatic Christianity is exploding around the globe.
One group adheres more faithfully to the Word and relies on the Spirit’s power. The other does not.
The results are as expected.
Depends on what you mean by *temporal punishments*.
Consequences here on this earth.
Yeah.
But I have also learned that *temporal punishment* is a Catholic code word for purgatory, and that your argument about temporal punishment, paying the consequences for crime here on earth, is a segue into justifying purgatory, which it’s not.
And paying for a crime here on earth is not relevant to what happens in the spiritual realm. It has no effect on the person after they die. It does not count towards remitting sin before God in the least.
The Church (Ekklesia= body of all believers, the saved of humanity) is not Israel. Check to whom Jesus addressed that ‘payment due). Your forked tongue is widening. Post the passage data of what you sought to use as your proof text, chapter and verse.
I don’t believe in purification or ‘purgatory’ and no where in the Holy Bible does it even mention such a place. Perhaps you’re confusing Sanctification with ‘purification’?
If you want to discuss Scripture, we can. I’m not going to get into “extra curricular” writings with you.
I’ve laid it out for you, do what you will with it.
My sins were nailed to the cross and when Christ said it was finished, it was.
St. Stephen went straight to heaven in acts. Ever think about why he didn’t have to pay his pennies?
NO!!!!!!
That kind of thinking is wrong and while it may be true Catholics believe this, the whole doctrine/theology is WRONG!
The blood of Jesus cleanses us from ALL sin. There is no longer any *attachment* to sin.
Read Romans 7. The sin that dwells in me is what the problem is.
The new spiritual new creation that the person is in Christ does NOT have any sin attached to it.
The sin is through the flesh and when the body of flesh dies, the last vestiges of sin are GONE.
If the blood of Jesus is not enough to destroy sin and the works of the devil, then our own suffering certainly never will, else all the people in hell would eventually purify themselves from their sin by suffering there long enough and thus become eligible for heaven.
The whole concept of purgatory is an affront to God and Jesus and what He suffered there for us. It is saying that His agonizing death on the cross was NOT enough to COMPLETELY pay for our sins.
And anything you add to the blood of Jesus, means you aren't trusting it fully, and that you are trusting what you add to Jesus' finished work on the cross.
Oh sure. God making people suffer for sins already paid for is *merciful*?????
You guys sure worship an unjust god.
It's neither just nor merciful.
Merciful is not punishing someone when they deserve it. When you punish them for sins and they deserve that punishment, then that's justice.
Catholics do not understand either mercy or forgiveness, in addition to not understanding grace. It's hardly their fault though, since Roman Catholicism as twisted the meanings of those words.
All I can do is SMH at such foolishness.
It’s not enough to insist that the saved will double pay for their sins, but they keep repeating the same said nonsense. Then double down on it, when Scripture is pretty clear, that it never happens.
I don’t know, you would have to ask each one separately. I don’t have time to do that. I have assurance of salvation. If others don’t, it’s not my problem. If they think it’s the sin of presumption, it’s not my problem.
I think many people, who are in cults, do not have any assurance of salvation. Probably, because they have NO salvation to begin with.
I do agree, Purgatory is a demonic lie, from the pit of hell. I can’t understand why so many people actually believe this false doctrine?
But note this dilemma. Dismas was forgiven by our merciful God, but he admitted he still deserved his temporal punushment, and he accepted it and endured it. Jesus apparently agreed with him. He didn’t say, “You don’t have to accept that. U already paid the orice. I’ll get you down from the cross.”
Jesus did not take back even what he said about how you will be held accountable for every idle word.
By your notion that there is no longer temporal debt to be paid, Jesus should have freed this man from his execution. No temporal punishment should be applied to any Christian, and all that Bible talk about going through purification is rendered nonsense.
So what happened to purgatory?
You keep talking about *temporal debt*, but the discussion started about purgatory.
How is facing the earthy consequences for our sin relevant to purgatory and that God completely forgives us and the saved person enters heaven upon death, free and clear, no more debt to be paid?
Sinners are accountable for every idle word.
If there is sin, then the believer had that erased by the blood of Jesus and he is no longer held to account for it because the record of it has been erased.
God sees the saved believer as pure and sinless as Jesus and relates to him at that level,which is why the saved believer immediately enters heaven and the presence of God upon death.
Temporal punishment here on earth for law breaking done here on earth, does NOT result in purification from the sin for which the individual is being punished.
Thus, the execution of the thief on the cross, whose name is NOT given in Scripture, did NOT purify him from any sin or wrongdoing.
He was with Jesus in paradise, not because he purified be cause suffered through a crucifixion, but because he trusted Christ to save him.
One of satan’s favorite debating tactics is to employ the fallacy of the undistributed middle when the dead soul is without escape from their errors in dismissing the Gospel of Grace. You might say it is a forked tongue twitter ...
I guess these are the same folks that would have a court of law jail someone for a sentence that has been pardoned.
The point of inclusion is to emphasize that the thieves were actually guilty of a crime, but the Savior was not.
Also, even if the thief had been taken down from the cross immediately upon his repentance, the likelihood of his survival is very doubtful.
If infection didn’t kill him in a horrible, slow agonizing death, then fluid loss would have.
Dying with Jesus was the best thing and most merciful thing that could have happened to him.
He was to be with Jesus in paradise immediately on death.
Jesus didn’t promise him an indeterminate amount of additional suffering to finish paying for his sins before being in the presence of Jesus forever.
Anyway, it is the soul trained in sin which sinneth even as the born from above spirit cannot sin because God's seed abides in the born again spirit. The fleshy soul is not born again and will be cast away when Christ descends from Heaven with a shout, and we are transformed in the twinkling of an eye and join the risen dead in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
The Bible is clear that the dead in Christ are with Him awaiting therapture event, when God will bring them with Jesus froom where Jesus is. To defend the demnc lie of purgatory one ( teacher of Catholicism) must toss out many promises of God. But they do it eagerly.
Did or did not Jesus tell the man...today you will be with Me in Paradise?
*****
39One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!”
40But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?
41“And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.”
42And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!”
43And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” Luke 23:39-43 NASB
*****
Jesus was crystal clear in His reply to the thief.
There was no mention of purgatory. None.
Either Jesus told the man the truth or He lied to him.
Your position is suggesting the latter.
*****
By your notion that there is no longer temporal debt to be paid, Jesus should have freed this man from his execution.
Mrs. D....as so often in these discussions you keep shifting your position.
Are there consequences for our sins on this planet? Yes. The thief being crucified is an excellent example. He acknowledges he committed a crime and is being justly punished.
He also recognized that Jesus was innocent of His charges.
Notice also what did not happen.
There was no appeal to Mary for leniency. And she was standing there at the foot of His cross.
Further, consider all this man did not get to do that is said to be required by Rome.
He was not baptized.
He did not get to participate in the Eucharist.
He did not have to go to an earthly priest for forgiveness.
There were no Hail Mary's said.
There was no penance he had to do for forgiveness.
******
All he could appeal to for mercy was Christ.
Yes indeed. There is a lot to be learned from this account in the New Testament as recorded by Luke.
Golly; I wonder why??
1030 Catechism is pretty clear on it too!
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