Posted on 02/24/2020 6:54:56 AM PST by Kaslin
According to a new Lifeway Research survey, while 47 percent of “mainline” pastors now support same-sex “marriage,” only 8 percent of evangelical pastors do. More specifically, “Presbyterian or Reformed (49%), Methodist (47%), Lutheran (35%) and Christian/Church of Christ pastors (20%) are more likely to see nothing wrong with same-sex marriage than Baptist (3%) or Pentecostal pastors (1%).”
None of this is surprising in the least.
First, as noted by Scott McConnell, executive director of LifeWay Research, “The movement we see among pastors’ views of same-sex marriage has less to do with their denominational tradition than their view of the Bible.”
Accordingly, those who hold most faithfully to the authority of Scripture will be the least inclined to change their views on homosexuality. Put another way, those who believe the Bible to be God’s inspired, unchanging Word will be the least likely to compromise their convictions based on societal changes.
“An evangelical distinctive,” McConnell continued, “is the ultimate authority the Bible has over one’s beliefs despite changing cultural perspectives. It is not surprising then that evangelical pastors across different denominations continue to view same-sex marriage as wrong through this lens.”
That’s because the Bible is unambiguous in its condemnation of homosexual unions. Under all circumstances, regardless of how much love or commitment is involved, they are sinful in God’s sight and contrary to His established order.
At the same time, mercy and forgiveness are offered for all, including practicing homosexuals. The Word is equally clear on this (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11).
That’s why, when I had a mini-debate with “gay Christian” poster boy Matthew Vines, he could not offer a single Scripture verse in support of his position. (For a graphic illustration of the scriptural bankruptcy of the “gay Christian” argument, see here.)
When it comes to “mainline” pastors, which these days primarily refers to “progressive” or “liberal” pastors, they are more inclined to interpret Scripture through the lens of contemporary culture than to evaluate contemporary culture through the lens of Scripture.
As a result, they are more likely to disbelieve fundamental, biblical truths, including: the Bible as God’s infallible Word; salvation coming only through Jesus; the virgin birth and the resurrection; eternal reward and eternal punishment.
That’s why it’s no surprise that these same pastors, who have waffled on the most foundational issues, will waffle on things like gay “marriage” too. What else could we expect?
Ironically, it is the Pentecostals, who are often derided for their belief that the Spirit continues to speak today, who are the most conservative of all, with only 1 percent of their pastors affirming same-sex “marriage.”
But that, too, should come as no surprise. That’s because the reason Pentecostals believe that prophecy and tongues are for today is because they believe that the Word of God means what it says. That’s also why they reject same-sex “marriage.”
Pentecostals also emphasize the importance of the new birth and life in the Spirit. This means that the vast majority of their adherents will have a greater devotion to the Lord and His Word than those of “mainline” churches, which often downplay the concept of personal relationship with God.
All this would be in keeping with a 10-country religious survey published in 2006, titled, “Spirit and Power – A Ten Country Survey of Pentecostals.”
The survey indicated that, “In addition to their distinctive religious experiences, renewalists also stand out for the intensity of their belief in traditional Christian doctrines and practices. For instance, in eight of the 10 countries surveyed (all except the U.S. and Chile), majorities of nonrenewalist Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word; but this view is even more common among pentecostals than among non-renewalist Christians. Similarly, large majorities of all Christians, renewalists and nonrenewalists alike, believe that miracles still occur today as in ancient times. But this belief tends to be even more intense among pentecostals and, to a lesser extent, charismatics than among nonrenewalist Christians.”
It is true that, according to the recent Lifeway Research survey, the more educated the pastor, the more likely he (or she) was to accept same-sex “marriage.” Specifically, “Those with a doctorate (27%) or a master’s degree (32%) are more likely to support same-sex marriage than pastors with a bachelor’s degree (9%) or no college degree (6%).”
But, once again, it is also more likely that many of those who pursued more advanced degrees view the Bible through a more modernist lens than those who chose not to pursue such degrees. Education, in and of itself, does not guarantee orthodoxy. This is especially so when the seminaries attended are themselves liberal.
Interestingly, “Pastors of churches with fewer than 50 in attendance are more likely to see nothing wrong with two people of the same gender getting married (33%) than those at churches with 100 or more in attendance (19%).”
This would confirm what I have written about numerous times, namely, that “progressive Christianity” is doomed to fail.
That’s why, while 47 percent of “mainline” pastors now affirm same-sex relations, they represent an increasingly small minority of American pastors as a whole as their congregations are dwindling. In stark contrast, Pentecostal-Charismatic Christianity is exploding around the globe.
One group adheres more faithfully to the Word and relies on the Spirit’s power. The other does not.
The results are as expected.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
IOW, not trying to gain right standing with God through the Law/works.
“ The majority of the time, sin hardens people, to a point, that, by the time they reach their death bed, they are not capable of repentance anymore.“
Agree.
He has his eternal destiny of bliss with the Lord. Granted. Free gift. No question.
But do you think he ought to have faced some temporal (not eternal) consequenes? Which he deserved (as the Good Thief on the cross said) for his crimes?
You're looking at this from a human perspective.
*****
1“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2“When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius for the day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3“And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the market place; 4and to those he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ And so they went. 5“Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did the same thing. 6“And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day long?’ 7“They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’
8“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last group to the first.’ 9“When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius. 10“When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. 11“When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner, 12saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.’ 13“But he answered and said to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14‘Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?’ 16“So the last shall be first, and the first last.” Matthew 20:1-16 NASB
That’s why I say, it’s a dangerous way to live. I think even many true believers are a little hazy on this concept. I can understand why people who are in cults, don’t have any clue about it at all. Unfortunately, and I wish it was different, but they will have their place in the lake that burns. It doesn’t have to be that way.
I give as my example, the man (called by some, "St. DIsmas" or "The Good Thief") who died at Jesus' side. This repentant criminal said that his own temporal punishment was just. And Jesus did not disagree with his assessment. The temporal punishment *was* just. And it was still required of him.
Otherwise we should have to release all imprisoned criminals as soon as they made their profession of faith in Christ. If their temporal price were paid, it would be unjust to hold them. Since he would be new man, a new creation, then --- by your "no consequences" thinking --- would it not be unjust, even blasphemous, to hold him further to pay what he no longer owes?
Remember here that we're talking about temporal punishments. We are not talking about "in eternity."
*****
Because only of His overwhelming generosity towards us.
12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Colossians 2:12-14 NASB
How can a sentient adult find this at all shocking?
If you steal and are caught, you go to jail or pay a fine...or both.
I give as my example, the man (called by some, "St. DIsmas" or "The Good Thief") who died at Jesus' side. This repentant criminal said that his own temporal punishment was just. And Jesus did not disagree with his assessment. The temporal punishment *was* just. And it was still required of him.
Yes. And the temporal punishment was on the cross.
| Catechism of the Catholic Church |
III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory
1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation;
but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
Which is EXACTLY what I typed!!
Who is that Catholic on FR that keeps insisting that we can't be ASSURED of salvation??
So; just HOW does one get perfectly purified so as to avoid purgatory??
Some people have a problem with OSAS theology.
I think it’s hard for many Roman Catholics (& former, myself included) to grasp the fact that you can be SAVED - yet sin again. That doesn’t stop you from being God’s adopted child. Your Salvation is secure by the Power of Christ’s Blood & The Holy Spirit’s Seal.
Jack Kelley did an excellent study on it years ago before he passed. The verses are there to back it up. If you have time and want to, I encourage you to read it and I hope it puts you at ease on what Christ really did for us when we 1) Believed 2) Called out to Him 3) Trusted His Finished Work
OSAS, THE WHOLE STORY
https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-studies/eternal-security/osas-the-whole-story/
The Salvation Jesus paid for on the Cross is not aimed at the flesh (composed of the behvior mechanism of soul and the body). The Word of God tells us that 'the word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword, able to separate soul and spirit. This tell us that the spirit is somehow before being born again attached, encapsulate, contained in the fleshy soul. While attached to the mechanism responsible for sinning, God will not abide there in the spirit.
The spirit must be separated from the fleshy soul, cleansed by the blood of the Christ, and THEN God indwells / abides in that spirit so that John tells us it cannot sin! The fleshy soul from which the spirit was separated will retain sin and the tendency, the learned behavior of sin. hat too can be somewhat changed through the renewing of the mind of the fleshy soul, but it is never going to enter into the Holy Presece of God, even if purgatory to pay some sin off could do it!
God's plan is to give EVERY BELIEVER trusting or has trusted in Jesus as Savior for the a new body and new soul/behavior mechanism. ... Perhaps that is why Catholicism and the teachers of Catholicism reject the pre-trib snatching away of the Body of Christ believers! If God is going to do what Paul said God will do (in 1 Thess 4:13-17 and 1 Cor 15:51-58), then the great demonic lie of 'purgatory' is exposed for the evil notion it is. God is not going to redeem the flesh. He does redeem the spirits of men and women as they trust in and thus place all glory for the truth of it squarely where it belongs, ON THE CHRIST OF GOD Who died for me and you.
The just punishment was meted out to the flesh. Jesus showed you that the punishment was not on the spirit because that day the thief was with Jesus in Paradise ... AS A PSIRIT BEING, NOT A FLESHY SOUL..
Missionary and Primitive and Free Will are fairly solid
Southern Baptist leadership has been infiltrated
National Baptist Convention is AME like
Black liberal
Texas and Tennessee church of Christ are strong and austere
Most Assembly of God or Church of God too
But some Pentecostal preachers are self promoters and had news
Even one in Nashville loved by conservatives ....a big one...i think he went emeritus
ALL Catholics believe you can be saved and yet sin again. That's what the doctrine of purification ("Purgatory") is all about. People who are 100% saved, but needing to be mercifully purified and freed of all attachment to sin, no matter how great or how slight that attachment to sin may be.
"Reconcile quickly with your adversary, while you are still on the way to court. Otherwise, he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.
Mind you, these are saved people our Lord is talking about They are not being thrown into eternal punishment for their sins. This temporary state of purification is a merciful provision for His beloved, adopted children: saved people. Nevertheless it is compared by Our Lord to a prison: it's not hell, and you WILL get out --- but only when you have paid the last penny.
You are correct, sir.
Excellent passage that is applicable to the discussion.
But know this, teacher of Catholicism, the Word of God clearly teaches you -if you will bow your pride to hear- that God plans on giving to your IF alive spirit a new body and new behavior mechanism, but only if your dead spirit has been born again. Otherwise your dead spirit will hold you from eternal life giving you only eternal death (and that death is not going out of existence, it is to be sequestered away from the righteous Universe God will create following the millennial reign of Crist.
Purgatory is a demonic LIE which insults the sufficiency of the Lord Christ. Put simpley for you, the spirit is what is born again not the fleshy soul.
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