Posted on 12/15/2018 4:10:34 AM PST by sparklite2
Maison Hullibarger’s father tells the Detroit Free Press that he asked the priest to stop talking during the Dec. 8 funeral Mass. But Jeff Hullibarger says the Rev. Don LaCuesta continued giving a critical sermon at Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church in Temperance.
Hullibarger says some mourners left the church crying.
The archdiocese released a statement Thursday saying it’s sorry that an “unbearable situation was made even more difficult.” The archdiocese says LaCuesta will not preach at funerals “for the foreseeable future.”
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
You really do not understand the New Testament and what it says Christ has done for us.
It is really sad....perhaps instead of reading the Catechism you, and your fellow Roman Catholics, should spend more time reading the very Scriptures ya'll claim to have given everyone.
4But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7 NASB
11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:11-14 NASB
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
6just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7“BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.
8“BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”
Romans 4:1-8 NASB
Is this going to be the measure now for what a Christian is - whether or not he verbally participates on prayer request threads??? Unless you have some kind of special “gift” of telepathy, you don’t have any idea what another Freeper prays for.
Answer: It is a sad fact that some Christians have committed suicide. Adding to the tragedy is the false teaching that committing suicide automatically consigns one to hell. Many believe that a Christian who commits suicide will not be saved. This teaching is not supported in the Bible.
Scripture teaches that, from the moment we truly believe in Christ, we are guaranteed eternal life (John 3:16). According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life (1 John 5:13). Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38–39). No “created thing” can separate a Christian from God’s love, and even a Christian who commits suicide is a “created thing”; therefore, not even suicide can separate a Christian from God’s love. Jesus died for all of our sins, and if a true Christian, in a time of spiritual attack and weakness, commits suicide, his sin is still covered by the blood of Christ.
According to the Bible, suicide is not what determines whether a person gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he has done nothing but “expedite” his journey to hell. However, that person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he committed suicide (see John 3:18). We should also point out, however, that no one truly knows what was happening in a person’s heart the moment he or she died. Some people have “deathbed conversions” and accept Christ in the moments before death. It is possible that a person who commits suicide could have a last-second change of heart and cry out for God’s mercy. We leave such judgments to God (1 Samuel 16:7).
The suicide of a believer is evidence that anyone can struggle with despair and that our enemy, Satan, is “a murderer from the beginning” (John 8:44). Suicide is still a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. Christians are called to live their lives for God, and the decision of when to die is God’s and God’s alone.
May God grant grace and the psalmist’s perspective to each one who is facing trials today: “Why, my soul, are you downcast? Why so disturbed within me? Put your hope in God, for I will yet praise him, my Savior and my God” (Psalm 43:5). (https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-suicide-saved.html)
If only the Roman Catholics could grasp this I’m stunned some are still defending their priest.
Apparently, the diocese felt the priest was out of line, so...
I don't think this priest handled the situation properly at all. He should spend some time contemplating his role as pastor and teacher. I know Jesus would have acted differently.
In time of need of comfort
Book of Wisdom 3: 1 - 9
1 But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and no torment will ever touch them.
2 In the eyes of the foolish they seemed to have died, and their departure was thought to be an affliction,
3 and their going from us to be their destruction; but they are at peace.
4 For though in the sight of men they were punished, their hope is full of immortality.
5 Having been disciplined a little, they will receive great good, because God tested them and found them worthy of himself;
6 like gold in the furnace he tried them, and like a sacrificial burnt offering he accepted them.
7 In the time of their visitation they will shine forth, and will run like sparks through the stubble.
8 They will govern nations and rule over peoples, and the Lord will reign over them for ever.
9 Those who trust in him will understand truth, and the faithful will abide with him in love, because grace and mercy are upon his elect, and he watches over his holy ones.
I certainly know what some freepers DON’T pray for.
...so, often there is a knee-jerk reaction on the diocesan level (as in all bureaucracy) just to mollify an offended person. I'd still like to hear the priest's --or any person's-- own words in context before I condemn him for something they allegedly said. But that's just me, I guess.
Stop misrepresenting what Mrs. Don-o has written. She has not defended this priest because like all of us, she has no idea what the priest actually said. This is a one-sided story at this point.
Even though we are in Chat and not on the Religious Forums, I’ll just leave it that you are misrepresenting her views and not doing something far more egregious.
Even though we are in Chat and not on the Religious Forums, I’ll just leave it that you are misrepresenting her views and not doing something far more egregious.
I'm not misrepresenting anything. Based on the family's testimony, and I'm willing to take the words of the family over a Roman Catholic priest who has been removed from funeral duties, the dude crossed the line.
It should be a real simple position to take.
But some Roman Catholics will defend the "company" no matter what.
This quote probably captures the situation perfectly....for it is what Rome does with its problems.
"Really, the only way for that to happen is for this priest to be removed. We’re afraid that, like the Catholic Church does, they’ll send him off and he’ll do it to somebody else," Jeff Hullibarger said.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/parents-want-priests-whop-presided-over-sons-funeral-removed
Our Redeemer does not necessarily remove our temporal punishments. The criminal crucified on the cross next to him, now called "Dismas," testified from the gibbet that he had deserved this just punishment because of his crimes, but that Jesus, in contrast, was an innocent man.
Jesus does not dispute that Dismas had deserved this punishment, which was just; nor did he get Dismas down from the cross. He did forgive him, wipe eternal punishment off the slate, and promised him "his day" to be with him in Paradise.
If forgiveness and salvation meant that all temporal (natural, logical and just) consequences would be instantaneously removed, Jesus would have gotten Dismas down from the cross. Why should Dismas be punished --- killed, in fact --- if he were forgiven? Couldn't his Savior save him?
Note that Dismas was allowed to suffer the entire temporal punishment for his sins right there on his cross. Jesus did not remove this. Although he HAD forgiven him and saved his soul.
The same is true of all of us because of our sins. God is just, and we still must account for every thought, every deed, "every careless word" and receive the just temporal punishment for our sins. This is part of what He revealed to us.
In His parable about this "payable" temporal debtm Jesus said that if you do not pay it off in this life, you will pay afterwards, and ..
Matthew 5:26
"Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny."
Luke 12:59
"I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”
He is not taking about Hell. There is no getting out of Hell. There is no "paying the last penny."
Our Lord is talking about temporal punishment: the kind where you do pay the last penny and, blessedly, it does come to an end.
This is called temporal punishment. And it is not instantly nullified even when (like Dismas) we are looked on with love by Christ, totally forgiven and saved.
I am constantly amazed at your lack of understand and conflation of what the Scriptures say. It's as if you have no prior Biblical training at all.
It's as if the concept of context has no meaning for you.
All sins have been forgiven and covered for the believer in Christ.
Are there earthly consequences of our sins? Yes. If you're caught stealing you may go to jail.
Do you have to "serve time" after you die for this? Not per the New Testament....maybe in Roman Catholicism....but not Christianity....and there is a difference.
The parables Jesus is talking about are not with an eye towards the Roman Catholic concept of purgatory.
He is talking about eternal matters here.
He's trying to warn the people that if they don't believe in Him...it's too late. They will have to pay every penny of their punishment (the wages of sin is death).
You're conflating earthly punishment for wrongdoings with eternal forgiveness. There is no post life punishment for your sins....THEY HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN AT THE CROSS.
But I guess that is why Roman Catholics feel they have to work themselves silly....hoping they've done enough to "earn" the free gift of salvation that Christ offers to us.
I have to disagree. If this "temporal" punishment scale-of-justice you describe is truly what our Lord intended, then wouldn't the inverse also be true? Remember the parable Jesus gave where the vineyard owner hired laborers and agreed to pay each one a days wage? Those who started work first thing in the morning got bent out of shape when they realized they were getting the same wage for working the full day as those who showed up for the last hours of the day. The vineyard owner answered the gripers by reminding them that HE was who decided who and what got paid and that they each agreed to work for the wage he offered. Now I ask you, did that sound "fair" to you? Shouldn't the late sleepers get less money than the early worms? What do you think Jesus was trying to convey through this parable?
The Catholic idea of Purgatory where a person MUST suffer "temporal" punishment for their sins or be cleansed of all attachment to the temporal world or whatever phrase/buzzword rationalizes the same concept, sounds suspiciously like saying that WE pay for our sins instead of the blood of Christ which Scripture very clearly says "cleanses us from all sin". Tell me, what possible reason would there be with us "paying to the last penny" a sin debt to God when we leave our human bodies at death? We are redeemed, we are made righteous, we are cleansed and purified through the blood of Jesus Christ once for all through faith. We leave behind this world, our flesh, our old sin natures when we die and we have no need for God getting even with us for past sins. The purpose of temporal punishments IN THIS LIFE is to teach us, discipline us, lead us into holy living and an aversion to sin. The thief on the cross next to Jesus, through his profession of faith in the Messiah, was redeemed and went to Paradise with him that day. His execution for theft was the government's punishment for his crime. No doubt it didn't come close to settling up accounts for his lifetime of crime.
Romans 2:6Each person. Not "each unsaved person." Each person. This is not eternal punishment. It is temporal punishment.
"He (God) will render to each person according to his deeds.
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
We must ALL... so that EACH ONE ... whether good or bad --- This is not talking about eternal punishment. This is temporal punishment.
1 Peter 1:16-17
For it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.” Since you call on a Father who judges each one’s work impartially, live your lives in reverent fear during your temporary stay on earth.
Peter is here addressing the believing, Christian community. Children of God. They know that God is their Father.. and it is this Father, who will judge each one's work impartially.
Let me pose an example:
Al and Zack both commit a heinous crime, murder. The state tose who have done evil (as St. Paul says in Romans 13), puts them in prison.
Al repents of his sin, accepts Jesus as his personal Savior, is forgiven, is (as you would say) saved. Zack does not accept Jesus by faith, so of course is not saved.
Will God spring Al from prison but leave Zack in? Or is it still "just" for Al to serve out his sentence?
Should the State sremit Al's punishment on the grounds that the authorities are acting as God's instruments --- and Al is now a washed-in-the-blood-of-the-Lamb Christian, which (you say) means that temporal punishments are nullified?
Hasn't Al been washed clean and been given God's mercy? Should all of Al's temporal punishment be canceled, since his eternal punishment was canceled? Does "mercy" mean he should walk free?
Psalm 62:12
Also unto You, O Lord, belongs mercy: for You render to every man according to his work.
1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God. 12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. Romans 2:1-16 NASB
In your example you continue to conflate an earthly situation with an eternal one.
I'll say it again.
If you commit a crime here on earth and you are caught you have to pay the penalty of that crime.
The believer in Christ is forgiven of all sins as previously noted in the verses I posted. If he/she commits an earthly crime...they do the time/punishment here on earth.
When they die....that sin has been covered and rubbed out by the blood of Christ.
There is NO PURGATORY or Limbo...if ya'll still even have limbo.
It is appointed once for man to die and then the judgment.
If anyone dies apart from faith in Christ they are judged on their deeds which condemn them to hell...the wages of sin is death.
John tells us the person who believes in Christ.... 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18 NASB
Mrs D....I'm being serious when I say this.
Read the book of John. Don't consult any of your roman catholic commentaries. Just read John and keep the verses in context. Pretend you've never heard of anything to do with Christianity.
Ask God and the Spirit to guide you. Only those two. No one else.
Pay particular attention to John 3, 5, and 10. It's all good, but those are exceptionally good.
Of course you’d take the word of the family - you’d take the word of the devil himself if it maligned Catholicism.
You have a bee in your bonnet on the subject.
Again, we don’t know the full story; I would at least like to hear the priest’s side of the tale before I drew judgment. That used to be the American way.
Nope. But then again, you might be one of the many Roman Catholics who refuse to condemn your denomination for their seeming refusal to deal with the homosexual issue in the priesthood. ,p> When put in that light I think we see who is aligning with who.
Again, we don’t know the full story; I would at least like to hear the priest’s side of the tale before I drew judgment. That used to be the American way.
In light of the current issues surrounding Roman Catholicism and their seeming steadfast refusal to deal with the homosexual issue and that the priest involved in this has been removed from funeral duties....me thinks you have very little room to stand on this.
But, like one of your fellow Roman Catholics....keep defending the "company" at all costs.
Perhaps if you spent less time harassing Catholic freepers about their religion and paid more attention to your own faith (whatever it is), you might be a happier person and less contentious and troll-like. But I suspect that while the caravan moves on, you’ll still be barking.
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