Hadrian's Wall Had A Bigger And Older Scottish Brother [tr]

Daily Mail (UK) ^ | April 27, 2013 | James Rush

[SunkenCiv]

Archaeologists have been carrying out research into a huge late fist century AD defence system, which stretches 120 miles across Scotland.

A total of 14 forts and several fortlets, which formed part of a defensive network built in the AD 70s, have so far been investigated over the past decade by the team, led by Dr Birgitta Hoffmann and Dr David Wolliscroft, both of the University of Liverpool.

The network, which is thought to have run from Montrose or Stonehaven, south of Aberdeen, on the North Sea coast to the Firth or Clyde, was built some 50 years before Hadrian's Wall, and is an extra 20 years older than Antonine Wall.

The team, who have carried out surveys of seven of the largest forts over the last five years, are hunting for the missing fortlets and towers. The forts are believed to have been manned by more troops than previously thought and it is also believed many were cavalry units...

Although the Romans in Scotland had good relations with many of the locals, they did have tensions with the northern Caledonian tribes, which is thought to have eventually erupted into major conflict in AD 83 or 84.

It is thought the two sides clashed at the battle of 'Mons Graupis', with up to 30,000 men fighting on either side.

[Monkey Face]

...Okay, I made up the danishes part...

But...but...but WHY? I mean, SC -- this is the kind of story that provides its own jokes! LOL! ;o])

[ZULU]

If Mons Graupius was nearby, it might explain it’s position - an “in your face” statement.

[ZULU]

Fighting a lot of these tribes must have been like boxing shadows. No towns, no cities, no plunderable resources. Only slaves and cattle.

[ZULU]

There was also the WasDyke and Offa’s Dyke in Britain. Post Roman.

[gleeaikin]

Another wall (Antonine’s Wall) was built subsequently about 70 miles to the north of Hadrian’s wall. There was an interesting article on that in a recent Archaeology magazine, I forget which one, will look for it and post info if requested. Marcus Aurelius decided that the British enterprise was not worth maintaining and pulled the Romans out.

[gleeaikin]

Given the harsh winters in the Highlands, and other lacks of worthy goods, especially in bad crop years, the wall was not doubt used to keep the norther tribes from attacking the more prosperous southern areas. Approximately the same reason we are building a wall to keep the less prosperous neighbors to the south from overrunning the USA. Are there any lessons to be learned from this history???

[BroJoeK]

"Are there any lessons to be learned from this history???"

A timeless lesson, goes back to Romulus & Remus:

"In response to Romulus' construction, Remus made continuous fun of the wall and his brother's city.
Remus was so bold as to jump over Romulus' wall jestingly.
In response to Remus' mockeries and for jumping over his wall, Romulus, angered by his brother's belittlement, killed him."

An undefended wall is easily breached.
A defended wall, not so much.

[ZULU]

It worked.

[ZULU]

Sic deinde quicumque alius transiliet moenia mea.

[ZULU]

Sic deinde quicumque alius transiliet moenia mea.

[SunkenCiv]

...annnnd, no one can push your buttons like family. :^)

[SunkenCiv]

...I mean really, they acted as if they’d been raised by, uh, never mind.

[SunkenCiv]

There are links above to topics about the Antonine Wall, as well. Hadrian's Wall served as a commercial barrier, not dissimilar to the Great Hedge in British India. Locating it there took advantage of the terrain, it also reduced the length of coastline that would have to be watched, important since the Celts were maritime pretty much all the time.

[SunkenCiv]

The Wansdyke ran for a long way, and probably uninterrupted, all the way to the Severn, but it wasn’t an all-earthen barrier; a couple hundred years ago its complete route could still be traced all the way to the river, now those traces are gone (maybe Time Team looked for some of it with their geophys?). As you said, it was post-Roman, and got that name because the Saxons regarded it as a work of Woden. Along with the probably pre-Roman Grim’s Dyke, parts of its route can be seen on this map off one of those “real King Arthur” blogs:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cWYBimmtjto/WjLqZiiTbJI/AAAAAAAACik/vTVoPR8hrWo3faE8qKoZbCZ_Wh88Vpz6wCLcBGAs/s1600/arthur%2Bsite%2Bon%2Bthe%2Bmap.jpg

Offa’s Dyke used to be attributed to the Mercian king Offa, he apparently made use of it. A shorter earthwork called Wat’s Dyke faces it along a small part of its length, and used to be believed to have been built in response to Offa’s.

Since so little was known of Wat’s excavation was undertaken, and wood from its base was RC dated to a period a few hundred years before Offa’s Dyke. Ten years went by.

Someone started wondering if all was really known about Offa’s Dyke, so it too was excavated and RC dated.

Offa’s Dyke turned out to be a few hundred years older than Offa.

The romantic fool in me attributes Offa’s Dyke and the Wansdkye to the leader/dynasty now dubbed King Arthur; since some of his 12 battles were also in the north, the proto-Arthur would also be responsible for the post-Roman use of Hadrian’s Wall, and would have been based in the original Roman east. Colchester was Camulodunum to the Romans, which is easy to transliterate to Camelot...

[SunkenCiv]

There's been a ton of anachronistic crap written about it, that's for sure -- how they invented asymmetric warfare to fight the Romans, blah blah blah -- and yet the battles always saw the Romans vastly outnumbered, e.g. Caesar at Alesia, or Agricola at Mon Graupius, or the couple of understrength legions that annihilated Boudicca and her fellow mass-murderers. Caledonia always wound up behind some other frontiers in priority. Ireland was pacified and partly Romanized by trade, to the point that it was the first "country" to convert to Christianity, and the rest of Britain was converted by Irish evangelists.

• So what have the Romans ever done for us? Ireland's links with the Roman empire are being investigated in a new archaeological project in which science plays a large part

Drone flight over Drumanagh site, Loughshinny, Co. Dublin

[ZULU]

Someone should write a book on all of these. If I remember right, there was even a Corduroy road of logs somewhere in VERY early Britain.

[SunkenCiv]

There’s a link in that long list of links above (I think, anyway, somewhere up there) about pre-Roman roadways; the author of the book involved appears to claim that the Romans didn’t build any roads in Britain, which is absurd. What did the Romans do in the rest of the empire, hire Britons?

[SunkenCiv]

Iron-masters of the Caledonians
Current Archaeology | Ross Murray (and editor)
Posted on 11/01/2007 9:45:26 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1919565/posts