Posted on 11/27/2017 3:51:18 PM PST by Bull Snipe
As German Army units overran the French Naval Base at Toulon France, French sailors and officers scuttled their ships to prevent them from falling into German hands. When it was over, 77 French Naval vessels, including 3 battleships, 3 heavy cruiser, 4 light cruisers, 15 destroyers and 12 submarines rest on the bottom of Toulon harbor.
Surrender monkeys doing what surrender monkeys do.
Was there a reason that these ships couldn’t be sailed to England?
They still hated England for saving them in WW1
*From WW1 to WW2, I meant to say.
Fuel. The Vichy agreement was to keep the fuel tanks of the war ships very low. They would have had a hard time sailing across the Med to North Africa, let alone to England.
Churchill wasn’t sure what Vichy France would have done with these ships and he didn’t want them falling into German hands.
Vichy France was not interested in fighting with Britain and the US. They wanted to stay out of the war. Southern France and the north African colonies were not occupied by Germans in 1940. Operation Torch, the US invasion of North Africa, led the Nazis to occupy southern France.
“Was there a reason that these ships couldn’t be sailed to England?”
As I understand it, the captains could not sail without orders to do so. Ship captains do not make government policy. The follow it. If I recall, they were ordered to scuttle.
There was an entire French fleet in Africa. Churchill had to destroy it as the French would not join him nor would they surrender it.
The French government was not willing to turn the fleet over to the British. Some senior Admirals wanted to do so, but only if the government gave the order. Nevertheless, the senior brass was determined not to turn the fleet over to the Germans if they attempted to seize it, which they in fact planned to do.
The French Officers and sailors did not surrender their ships to the Germans. They sunk them with their own hands to prevent the German Navy from gaining 3 battleships, 7 cruisers, 15 destroyers and 12 submarines to use against the British and American Navies.
Like the tea drinking surrender monkeys that ran away at Dunkirk, or surrendered Singapore to a force of 1/3 their size? Like that?
Or like the German bratwurst eating surrender monkeys who scuttled the fleet off Scapa Flo? Or surrendered in North Africa and Stalingrad?
The French fought damned hard in WWI and lost far more than the Brits. They fought hard in WWII and lost. Under captivity they behaved about the way we would expect the British to. Some were heroes, some were not.
Don’t pretend for a minute that there werent large parts of British aristocracy that would’ve been happy to go along with Nazi rule as long as they got to keep their position in society.
The French naval brass was thoroughly pro-Vichy, especially after the British, concerned lest the French fleet fall into the hands of the Axis following France's surrender, attacked it at Mers el-Kebir in July, 1940. Nonetheless, many French sailors remained pro-Allied, but since they were not in control, all they could do was to plot to scuttle the fleet once the Germans moved in.
Dunkirk was a strategic retreat. No surrender there. Singapore was indefensible without adequate air and naval support. In neither case was Britain defending its home turf.
And to show they would do what they said they would do. The English opened fire at a French fleet at Mers El-Kebir in North Africa a couple of years earlier to keep them out of German hands. The French claimed they never would have let the Germans get the ships. Thousands of French sailors died. It was a sore spot between the French and Royal navies for years.
The ships at Toulon were out of the effective reach of the Royal Navy, so they sat there in French hands, until they kept their word and scuttled rather than add to the Nazi fleet.
The Germans started their offensive in May. Took Paris in mid-June. The French sunk their ships in NOVEMBER!
Not like there wasn’t enough time to paddle them to Liverpool for the Brits to use. The German Navy’s Bismarck has long since been sunk. Their navy was nearly completely shot by then. The chances of them being attacked while fleeing to the UK were nil.
They had months to take offensive action or reposition but they sat on their hands.
Is it true the new French Navy has glass bottomed ships so they can see the old French Navy?
Had the American Army been in Northern France in 1940, the Krauts would have handed us our asses just as easily as they did the Brits and French. Had our Army been in Malaya in early 1942, the Japanese Army would have kicked our asses, just as easily as they did the Brits. Remember our great naval Victory at Pearl Harbor: 4 battleships sunk,4 battleships damaged, 12 other ships sunk or damaged, 188 aircraft destroyed, 159 aircraft damaged, 2,335 killed, 1,143 wounded. All of this damage at the cost of 29 Japanese aircraft and crews. Like that?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.