Posted on 07/30/2017 11:33:35 AM PDT by Strac6
If history has taught us anything, it has taught us that failure to deal with dictators early in their existence only ensures that we must deal with them later, at a much higher price.
For example, Hitler’s orders to his troops during what amounted to Germany’s invasion of Austria was that they were to retreat and return to Germany at the slightest effective resistance. However, Austria (and the rest of Europe) tried to appease Hitler, and the 10 years was a glaring example of the history referenced above.
This is the situation we are currently facing regarding North Korea and Kim Jong-Un. Actually, it’s the situation we have faced since the Clinton administration first appeased North Korea and Kim’s father decades ago. The reality is that Kim is far from the madman some would like to portray him as. He is ruthless, smart, and as a result of those two “attributes”, he is getting what he wants on the world stage. His latest test launches prove he has developed intercontinental range ballistic missiles. The question of whether or not he can currently fit a nuclear warhead to the top of those missiles is moot. If he cannot now do so, he will be able to do so, and most certainly will do so in the very near future.
Once he has nuclear -tipped ICBMs Kim can dictate what he wants, not just on the Korean Peninsula and the surrounding waters, but throughout the entire world. So the reality becomes that we must either stop them now, or stop him at a much greater cost later when the threat of his retaliation becomes reality, or perhaps, following the current trends of the Western world, be prepared to dance to his tune for the next millennia.
We cannot depend on China to stop North Korea. North Korea provides a great service to China, and I’m not talking about the coal the PRC imports from the DPRK. North Korea is a huge practical, strategic and diplomatic thorn in our side in eastern Asia. By forcing the United States to devote a large percentage of our defense expenditures and interests onto the Korean Peninsula, we take a great deal of pressure off Beijing.
Likewise the Japanese do not have the ability, the constitutional authority, nor the will to defeat the North Koreans. The news leader of South Korea has absolutely no intestinal fortitude to take on his northern neighbor, and has publicly said so. The bottom line is that the Japanese would be more than willing to help to the degree they can while the South Koreans “held our coats” if we decided to take definitive action against North Korea.
Another reality is that despite all the noise the Chinese and Russians would make if we decided to take out North Korea as an effective nuclear power, they really wouldn’t mind it that much, Moscow and Beijing both realize North Korean missiles can fly west just as easily as they can fly east.
The problem is, we need one, overriding, war-justifying act on the part of Kim to trigger a response. The “smart part” of Kim has been careful to push us to the brink, but not over it, and in the process, neither justifying nor triggering a military response to his launches.
Without that tipping-point justification we are severely limited by the political realities of the 21st century world. Kim’s latest ICBM launch may however point us in the direction of the solution to justify what history tells us is necessary.
The latest two launches have not followed traditional missile parabolas. Rather than launching for maximum range, these missiles have impacted only a short horizontal distance away from the launching point after having traveled to exceptionally high altitudes before heading back into the atmosphere. The now-demonstrated ability to achieve these total distances traveled by the missiles, including a 40 minute time-of-flight of the latest launch, prove that by simply reprogramming the missiles trajectory into a more horizontal plane they could have easily struck most of North America, including a majority of the East Coast of the United States.
So, in order to give us the justification we need, why don’t we help Kim do that?
Granted, I am slipping back into the days of dirty tricks diplomacy, but that worked exceptionally well for decades, why not give it another chance with this opportunity presents itself so well, as it does here, and the price of not taking effective action is so high.
The concept, which a few million dollars, yen, yuan in bribes could undoubtably create, would be to hack into the guidance computers of the next North Korean missile launch and lower the trajectory so the unarmed nosecone does in fact impact somewhere North America. Now I realize the danger that the relatively rudimentary guidance of a North Korean ICBM might create an impact in some good union worker’s house in the suburbs of Pittsburgh and kill the family pet turtle, but since Kim is launching without nuclear warheads, that would be a small price to pay for the justification of an attack that would completely eliminate his nuclear, missile, and other large-scale affective capabilities.
Think about it. As bizarre as it is, this errant missile impact would give POTUS the justification to do basically anything he wanted to do in return and retaliation. Even the screaming pinkos would be relatively silent when the president’s actions were so “clearly justified.”
Yes, I know it’s bizarre. But by 1939, Hitler’s aggressive war intentions were clearly understood throughout the world. Likewise Tojo had decreed the “Greater Southeast Asia Co-prosperity Severe.” Both had stated their intention to conquer the West in much less virulent terms then Kim uses now. If you were given the opportunity to go back in time and stop Hitler or Tojo before 30 million people died to fulfill their psychotic dreams, would you not do so?
Given the opportunity to stop Kim now, should we not do so? In fact, must not we do so...now?
Anyone else have any better ideas as to how to get away with it?
And I think you're forgetting that the Norks, just like us, almost certainly have such a thing as a Range Safety Officer with the authority to blow up a missile that went off course. Given how close they are to South Korea, China, Russia, and Japan, their self-destruct system is likely the most carefully tested part of the missile.
Assuming you could "hack into" their missile guidance (do you think they hook that stuff into the internet?) you'd also have to "hack into" their range safety self-destruct and disable it. Good luck.
Dump the cocktails, rely on coffee instead and set out some ground rules. The issue is not how to start a war but rather what steps may our President take to defend our nation from the actions of a Hitler- or Tojo-like threat. (Which steps, of course, do not cause any damage in the U.S. or require a DOW.)
Your argument would get us there if you proposed to use the same assets to reprogram the guidance system to instead lift the first nuclear-tipped missile to an altitude that would effectively destroy the immediate environment, with little or no damage or fallout to SK.
It would seem prudent to have a backup plan that included assets in place that could destroy the missile at a slightly higher altitude. In this event, we would not be starting a war, we would be defending our country.
Our fingerprints would not be so obvious in the first case; if the backup plan was activated it would certainly send a message to the other major powers.
Out to dinner, thanks for starting the thread!
This ain't your Grandfather's crew...This bunch would never approve it...
How long would the deep state spies of the CIA/DIA allow this to be kept secret? Less than a week is my guess.
That would surely get Trump impeached & removed from office.
A better idea is to keep up the pressure on NK with numerous recon flights until Un tries to shoot them down. Trump can then rightly retaliate with strikes on AA sites. War will follow shortly, as will Un’s death & the complete destruction of his nuclear program.
I still ask my basic question; what would you have done in 1938 to prevent Hitler or Tojo from starting WWII, and killing 30 million?
What would you be willing to do to prevent Kim from dropping a live nuc mid-Pacific an then announcing he had 5 more already sitting on mobile launchers targeting at NYC, DC, LA, London and “somewhere else”?
The only answer is to launch nuclear weapons on every single country in the world.
What more does he have to demonstrate to show he has the capability?
He has fission-fusion weapons
He has ICBMs
He has mobile launchers.
3 strikes and he.... or we.... are out.
Nah, save Switzerland, Kenya and Thailand.
We have executed much more than this without getting caught.
1: For example, as something we can now talk about, FDRs totally illegal support of the UK before Pearl Harbor. A total violation of the Neutrality Act....but it stopped Operation Sea Lion, and saved the free world.
2: Our very successful overflights of the USSR in the last years of the 40s, well into the 50s, just to pizz off the Sovs. We would launch B-45s from the UK, direct Moscow, direct Kiev, then back to the UK or Italy, just to show the Sovs they could do nothing about it.
BTW, the AF would always arrive over the Kremlin at exactly 12:00 Moscow time, just to twist the Central Committee’s tail even more strongly.
3: Then their was Operation Vestibule....
Time has a way of excusing certain acts when the ends are achieved.
With all respect, what would you all have done to stop Tojo or Hitler in 1938?
Do you take Kim’s threats seriously. I do.
Would you now do the same to stop Kim?
you discredit yourself completely when you equate Kim with Hitler
It’s just parroting the neocon playbook of lies.
The sky is not falling chicken little, don’t get your panties all twisted
Do you have any idea how much you sound like Neville Chamberlain?
If you ask why Switzerland; It’s very simple.
Sig, Pilatus, and Mrs. Strac.
:)
Be well
>> maybe DC should make an intelligent, coherent case, go before Congress, ask for a Declaration or War, and then simply attack them.
President Trump should do exactly as you’ve suggested and thereby put the onus of military action directly upon those arseholes on Capitol Hill. Then, when they start their usual dog and pony show, he can go directly to the voters and lay out the enormity of the existential threat that Congress refuses to eliminate. And on the other hand, if they support the CINC’s willingness to attack the Norks, in doing so the President will have enormous public support here and around the world. It’s a win/win strategy.
Not sure that lends merit to your proposition. Redirecting a missile launch to strike within the US would be much worse than intentionally not directing US military command in Hawaii in 1941 to prepare for an immediate strike by Japan.
It may not have been clear from my post but I appreciate your concern about the situation and your attempt to generate an action plan instead of sitting passively to see how things turn out. My post simply suggested there is probably a more effective way to use the essence of your proposition: that we could likely redirect a NK guidance system (of which I am somewhat confident, either before or after launch).
My proposal would remove the source of the problem without damage to the US, and without a serious risk of starting WWIII.
“Think about it. As bizarre as it is, this errant missile impact would give POTUS the justification to do basically anything he wanted to do in return and retaliation. Even the screaming pinkos would be relatively silent when the president’s actions were so “clearly justified.””
Just shoot it out of the sky and announce the next one that launches will be shot out of the sky and we will launch one of our own in return.
That ends the problem and forces China and Russia into a game they cannot afford to play.
Well said, but I see a few problems.
Kim is a problem NOW. Anti-missile defenses of the types needed are not currently available, at least in the number needed, and Congress never would do anything.
Additionally, an issue I didn’t even raise. Kim does not need 10 or 100 effective missiles. One, on Wall Street would stop America. It would not “destroy” us in the WWII sense, but it would stop the business of America, and BTW, our gold is not at Ft. Knox, it is in vaults under the Federal Reserve Bank in NYC.
Take one simple industry, food. Supermarkets have 3 days of food on hand, their central warehouses have another 3. After that, it’s trains from the farmlands and ports. How do trains run, when there is no Wall Street economic system to support them, or their railroads.
That’s just one of 148 lifestyle-necessary industries.
What if that one warhead hit DC?
What about EMP?
What if Kim never launched one more missile, just announced the ability to launch a nuclear-tipped one?
I could always judge the level of crisis by the number of office lights burning overnight in the inner rings of the Pentagon and The Virginia Highway Experiment Station as I flew over them flying in and out of DCA. Tonight, there were many.
PS, with all respect, you seem to think that going before Congress could achieve anything substantial.
The only thing they have does of any significance this year is approving March as Peach Month (Actually, that line is not original. It’s an old Bob Dole joke.)
In reality, Ryan and McConnell could not organize a two-car funeral!
Meanwhile I've got to go do what I do tomorrow and pay some bills.
And who whispers in their ears.....?
Have a good week.
The problem is, current US antimissile systems are successful about 50% of the time, even when they have perfect test conditions, know the missile is coming, etc.
Are you ready to protect your home with a security system that alarms 50% of the time? Or a weapon that shoots 50% of the time?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.