Dr. James Dobson: Donald Trump Has Accepted Christ

Donald Trump, according to a new report, has accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

No, you didn't accidentally click on The Onion. That's a factual statement, according to a well-respected evangelical faith leader.

Dr. James Dobson, who was among the more than 900 evangelical faith leaders who met with the Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting in New York City, says it happened fairly recently. He also said he knew who led the businessman to Christ.

"I don't know when it was, but it has not been long," Dobson told Godfactor's Michael Anthony in an exclusive interview. "I believe he really made a commitment, but he's a baby Christian. We all need to be praying for him, especially if there's a possibility of him being our next chief executive officer."

That's not what Daniel1212 said. He said if Trump doesn't pronounce it to his personal satisfaction, it doesn't exist. So don't try to soften what is going on here.

I wasn't softening anything. I'm not sure I exactly agree with him down to the last point, but on the whole I agree with him, and I have stated what I believe. And while I might not entirely agree with him, I also don't believe he's saying Trump has to prove he's a Christian to his (daniel's) satisfaction.

And I also showed you by my last reply that on the whole I don't agree with you on this whole issue.

And you took his words on that out of context, drastically altering their meaning: “If I can show you a true believer”? — Really? And who are you, that such should be shown to you?” This is what he actually wrote: “If you can show me a true believer in Scripture that never wanted to do so then you can make your case...” A true believer IN SCRIPTURE.

>>>No, he said "if you can show ME a true believer in scripture..." Him. Show HIM. So HE, Daniel1212, will decide whether scriptural authority was met. He set HIMSELF up as the judge of the application of scripture, in this case in the assessment of Trump's soul before Christ.

Here again you are distorting things.

You don't even answer for how you cut off what he wrote, cutting out the words "in Scripture," and that is something else telling. Your original reply to him on it didn't even mention Scripture and him supposedly setting himself up as its judge on how to apply it.

And you disregard that Daniel saying "if you can show me" is just an expression here. He could have phrased it in many different ways and it would have meant the same thing. The emphasis in his remarks wasn't on him, but what's in Scripture, and you are inventing an emphasis on himself. The two reasons he mentioned himself was one, to create a grammatically correct sentence, and two, that you were talking to HIM at the time. That's it.

And that's why I pointed out that his arrogance was insufferable - because it is. Daniel1212 has NO AUTHORITY to make such a judgement about another soul - that authority is CHRIST'S ALONE.

"No authority to make a judgment on another's soul"? "That authority is Christ's alone"? What about Hillary Clinton? You posted this in regards to her saying she's a person of faith, I see:

"Hillary Clinton at Stellar Awards: â€˜I Am a Person of Faithâ€™"

On James Dobson, without any evidence, you wrote, "Dobson is just playing games to pump his business. If Trump doesn’t want to talk about it, what position does this put him in? What Dobson is doing is wrong.”

While the whole story has yet to come out, one thing is for sure, at the time you wrote that, there was no evidence that making this public was Dobson's idea, and didn't come from Trump's campaign, and even Trump himself. While it's possible that Dobson did just come out with this independently, it's highly unlikely. He's a Christian leader, but he's been politically involved for years, and has worked alongside politicians. While possible, it's extremely doubtful that this isn't a strategic leak orchestrated by Trump's campaign. Yet without evidence, you accuse and convict Dobson. The Bible says that God hates both when people are falsely convicted, and when the guilty are allowed to go free.

And you've also been judging Daniel and I here.

I have some news for you - the Bible doesn't SAY anything. The Bible is a book of words. PEOPLE say what THEY THINK the Bible means - including you, and including Daniel1212. And then they HIDE THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS BEHIND THE BIBLE.

...But the Bible DOESN'T say anything. People like YOU say that it says things, while setting yourself up as arbiters of God's word without ever having to admit that it is nothing but your personal OPINION.

And what about you? That's the obvious question here.

Why leave yourself out of "PEOPLE say what THEY THINK the Bible means," "And then they HIDE THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS BEHIND THE BIBLE," and "People like YOU say that it says things, while setting yourself up as arbiters of God's word without ever having to admit that it is nothing but your personal OPINION."

So, then, you make remarks like this, and even quote from the Bible to make your points, then say it outright how well you know the Bible, and what your authority is to do so.

The Catholics and the Protestants have, to all of the most important extents, the SAME Bible. Yet both interpret the SAME words so differently that they declare the other heretics and bound for HELL. Think this is a trivial issue? Even Protestant sects feel that way about each other, over the SAME Bible

Differences over Bible interpretation isn't a trivial issue. No one has said or suggested it is. But that issue has nothing to do directly with your claims.

Once again, I go back to your response to Hillary Clinton's claim of faith. She has also claimed to be guided by the Bible. So the Bible is so impossible to interpret that it's not possible to say she's wrong?

Bible interpretation also isn't a new issue. It is as old as God's Word itself, and the Bible itself instructs Christians (and anyone willing to be instructed by it) on how to interpret it, and how to interpret how others are intrepreting it.

And yes, Christians still disagree on some things the Bible says, and this has caused some divisions, of both greater and lesser extent.

In John 7:17-18, Jesus said this: "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."

Seeking God's glory is to seek to do God's will. In this world, the ultimate Judge of that is God's Word, and the other judges of it are those who seek to do God's will. While there are no human judges who interpret the Bible perfectly, some are much closer to what it says, and some are far away.

There are some avowed Christians, leaders and pastors of churches even, who say that the Bible is just another book concerning spiritual things, written by men. They say God doesn't exist, but is the invention of men, and the importance of Christianity is that it contains some spiritual truths, like other religions do.

That is not close to what the Bible says. It's far away, and not faithful to it, though a pastor who believes that might preach some lessons from the Bible in his church. And the Bible is the judge that shows this pastor isn't being faithful to it, and people who are seeking to do God's will can observe that.

Finally, we only know in part, in this world, as Paul said, but one day all will be known. Yet until then, we are still called upon to make judgments, according to how God has instructed us to in His Word. So we are to call a pastor who rejects God's authorship of the Bible a heretic, and to warn others that he teaches heresy.

If the Bible could SAY anything, then there would not be these gigantic rifts in understanding. But the Bible DOESN'T say anything.

I've already responded to this in part, but will add agreement with a point Daniel made about what you said. That is a secular humanist/liberal view of the written word, that it doesn't really say anything, but the meaning just resides in the reader. So anyone's interpretation is just as good as anyone else's.

Because it seems to me you missed that entire "I know you not" part of Jesus' teachings. You know, what he said towards hypocrites who did "wonders" in His name? That one.

Again, you say Trump's "wonders" MUST have been done through his faith, and yet you post this? I certainly can't say he's a hypocrite. I hope he isn't. But it remains to be seen if he will demonstrate faith.

Do you have any doubt that ONLY the power of God could enable Trump to take on - and defeat - EVERY demonic power trying to destroy America? And do you also think such power comes WITHOUT FAITH?

I've definitely seen the power of God at work in his candidacy. But again, God can use people as His instruments. Ahab isn't the only example of that in the Bible.

And again, much remains to be seen. At this point, Trump has, for instance, backed off supporting Christians who don't believe men should be allowed in Ladies' rooms and women's locker rooms (and vice versa).

And without getting into its apparent connections to the 2016 race, there is the prospect of America being under pending judgment, as indicated by the connections between 9/11 and the Bible passage Isaiah 9:10. Are you aware of that connection between Isaiah 9:10 and 9/11?

I certainly don't exclude myself from what I'm saying - I never have. My opinions about the meaning of the Bible are just that - my opinions. I don't hide behind the idea that the Bible is "saying" something, and I'm just reporting it. That, however, is exactly what I hear you doing and defending doing, and I don't accept it, from you, Daniel1212 or anyone else. People hide behind their religions, as if the religion is just stuck to them and they have nothing to do with it. They conveniently forget that they choose that religion, and they also choose their own personally accepted interpretations of the Bible. That they are fully responsible for their own beliefs, just as you and I are. The difference is that I accept my beliefs AS my beliefs, and I don't claim that they're anyone else's.

Also, I've found that the narrower the door, and the higher the barriers people demand for accepting someone else's beliefs as "valid", they more they claim the Bible is speaking on its own, and religion is speaking on its own, and they are just the humble messenger. IMO, to such people, Jesus says "I know you not."

And really, how hard is it to simply say that your religious beliefs are yours? And why should that be such an outrageous thing to demand? After all, it's so obviously true.

I certainly don't exclude myself from what I'm saying - I never have. My opinions about the meaning of the Bible are just that - my opinions.

On the contrary, you have expressed the strongest of views, going so far as to make accusations against James Dobson, Daniel and myself. When you said "what Dobson did was wrong," for instance, what did you believe your standard was for that? Your own, in disagreement with God's, or did you believe you were only stating and upholding God's standard? And if you believe that you were in agreement with God to say what Dobson did was wrong, on what basis? How did you come to that judgment?

You have also omitted, once again, any mention of how familiar you are with the Bible.

I don't hide behind the idea that the Bible is "saying" something, and I'm just reporting it. That, however, is exactly what I hear you doing and defending doing, and I don't accept it, from you, Daniel1212 or anyone else.

See above. And I will also add that it isn't "hiding behind the idea that the Bible is 'saying' something" to say something like "the Bible says..." or the "the Bible teaches." Go back to what I wrote to you about Hillary Clinton and Jesus saying "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him."

People hide behind their religions, as if the religion is just stuck to them and they have nothing to do with it. They conveniently forget that they choose that religion, and they also choose their own personally accepted interpretations of the Bible. That they are fully responsible for their own beliefs, just as you and I are. The difference is that I accept my beliefs AS my beliefs, and I don't claim that they're anyone else's.

Well what you've said here then begs the question, do you acknowledge any way to judge whether or not someone is faithfully applying the Bible?

Since you have rejected Hillary Clinton's claim that she is a "person of faith," then apparently, you do. So what is it, then?

And again, you've gone beyond merely offering your opinion here and "your own beliefs," to judge others.

I also have to say here, that your continued avoidance of just outright saying how well you do, or don't, know the Bible, makes it very hard to discuss much of this with you, and that is on you. It's a problem that you've created here.

And considering how you have accused me, including through the use of Bible passages, I demand to know what your knowledge of the Bible is.

Also, I've found that the narrower the door, and the higher the barriers people demand for accepting someone else's beliefs as "valid", they more they claim the Bible is speaking on its own, and religion is speaking on its own, and they are just the humble messenger. IMO, to such people, Jesus says "I know you not."

Again, there's no real discussing all this since you haven't said how well you know the Bible, which isn't something that should be hidden.

And really, how hard is it to simply say that your religious beliefs are yours? And why should that be such an outrageous thing to demand? After all, it's so obviously true.

Again, much of what I've already said in this reply applies here. But I will add that the ultimate standard isn't what seems to be "so obviously true," but the Bible, which shows us that sometimes what seems obviously true to us is indeed true, and other times, it isn't.

Your posts are extremely bizarre. Why would you think that owning my own opinion can only mean not having any opinion about the Bible? Who are you to "demand" I prove my understanding of the Bible to you?! It's laughable, starting with your egomaniacal presumption, and ending with the complete lack of any objective valuation by which you could judge me, or give me reason to submit to your arrogance. How about we reverse it - you prove to me you understand the Bible. Go ahead, and then I will judge you. See how totally asinine that sounds? That's how YOU sound.

I said Dobson was out of line claiming authority to announce Trump's Christianity, because I say that was Trump's announcement to make alone. In response you've written a book, on behalf of another poster, denouncing my Christianity. Why don't you go get a life, and leave me alone? I recognize zero Christianity in you - you're just a blowhard argumentarian with time on your hands. I reject your judgements of me, I reject your efforts to judge my relationship with Christ, and I reject your supposed understanding of the Bible. In other words, we are not going to agree here, and I'm tired of replying to your crap.

Go away.

What you’ve said here just twists things around.

I’m not going to try to sift through it all, but will say just one thing, again.

YOU accused me of things, and used the Bible to do so. Accusing people like that is something serious, whether you recognize that or not.

And so you had better believe that gives me a right to demand that you say how well you know the Bible.

I didn’t demand that you prove how well you know it, only that you give some idea of how well you do - beginning with if you’ve read the entire Bible, as I asked you above. That’s not hard to understand.

But for some reason, you just won’t do that, once again.

That’s not being upfront about things.

If I had to come to a conclusion, based just on what I’ve seen in this thread, about how much you seem to know about the Bible, I would say you really know little about it beyond a few parts of it.

And since you apparently just aren’t going to be upfront, I will take the appearances to be the case, and that you don’t know the Bible well, and so you are speaking with very little knowledge when you make accusations, and when you make your pronouncements on spiritual matters as well.

the Bible doesn't SAY anything. The Bible is a book of words. PEOPLE say what THEY THINK the Bible means

My opinions about the meaning of the Bible are just that - my opinions. I don't hide behind the idea that the Bible is "saying" something, and I'm just reporting it... '

Consider the absurdity of your liberal position, for it excludes anyone from saying anything is Biblically right or wrong, which means they cannot obey such injunctions as "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them," (Ephesians 5:11)Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." (2 Timothy 4:2)

For since the Bible really does not say anything so clearly that one can assert "Scripture states," but it is all a book of words out of which people only say what THEY THINK the Bible means, so that it is only their opinions, then no one can assert a Scripturally substantiate case, and as seen in my case, such can be blithely dismissed as merely being their opinion.

And which is just what prohomosexual apologists and the like contend, echoing the hiss of the serpent, "Hath God said.."

And here we are not dealing with some abstract theological problem, but with the manifest testimony of Scripture as to what born again conversion basically effects in word as well as in deed.

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. (1 John 4:14-15)

We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; (2 Corinthians 4:13)

Yet outspoken Trump says nothing about a conversion, and hardly ever even mentions the name above every name, and while you and others make Trump to be a miracle worker by God, why does not he himself even clearly ascribe the things you call miracles to God?

And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? (Acts 4:7)

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (Acts 4:10)

When Pilate asked, "What is truth?" Jesus remained silent. To you, He said nothing. To me, he answered the question.

That is an absurd, desperate argument and an outrageous abuse of Scripture! In context, the Lord had already done constantly what Trump has not done at all, which is to expressly proclaim Christ and His mission and union with the Father, and to point souls to Scripture time and time again as the standard for Truth, and who had just told the leaders at His illegal trial that "Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven," (Matthew 26:64) and to Pilate that "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36) and that He should bear witness unto the truth, all of which provides the context for His judgmental silence after all this.

In stark enduring contrast, Trump has never publicly testified to his sppsd conversion nor of God working in his life, nor pointed souls to Scripture as the basis for his morality, or otherwise even given the media much cause to charging him with being a Bible Christian.

Give it up. It remains that Biblically speaking, if Trump or anyone is unwilling to expressly confess their conversion by the Lord Jesus as their Lord and Savior, at least once publicly if able, then it never happened. Converted souls in Scripture testified to what happened to them, while constant silence is a denial.

Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 10:32)

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)

And by which, in word as well as in deed, we know who is a believer.

Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. (1 Thessalonians 1:4)

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia. For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. (1 Thessalonians 1:5-8)

Like I said, you distort things, as you have once again here. That’s your choice. But as long as you distort things rather than address them squarely, it’s not possible for us to have a real discussion.

Shut. Up.

That about sums up his "argument." How dare you attempt to engage in a substantive debate with one who is censorious that which impugns pope Trump as being converted to Christ, in contrast to what Scripture manifestly teaches. But since he subscribes to the liberal ethos that the Bible does not actually say anything clearly, but that instead what people say it says is only their opinion, then of course such can say Trump is a miracle working convert to Christ, even if he never mentions this sppsd life-changing conversion, nor provides a consistent basically Scriptural stand against abortion, homosexual relations, etc., while even owning strip clubs.

Scores - Trump Taj Mahal... Pole Dancing & Strip Tease Lessons Friday & Saturday 7:30pm-9:30pm . Learn the science of seduction or the art of pole dance from a certified Scores hottie!

ms. self-righteous talisker has quite the vocabulary. He is a serious hater of law enforcement officers and a proponent of homosexuals. One has to wonder?

So now you "Christians" have to import stalker thugs to spew slander against someone who challenges your self-declared holiness? Well you're historically accurate, I'll give you that. Except it was the Catholics who used countries armies as their mercenary thugs, not Protestants so much. Back in the day, Protestants actually fought their own fights. Now? LOL, now you fling coins to crawling foul-mouthed shills to do your dirty work. I guess that's because your faith in Christ is so profound, right?

BTW, I hit abuse over the stalking and slander. You see, I couldn't find it justified in the Bible - in my opinion. Since the Bible speaks FOR y'all, though, it might tell you, all on its own, without you having to take any personal responsibility for your opinion, that using thugs on behalf of avoiding personal responsibility for your faith in Christ is perfectly fine. After all, why not? It's not like you have to personally answer for what IT says and does all by itself on your behalf. LOL!

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.