Posted on 03/02/2016 6:37:37 AM PST by Citizen Zed
Hear that change jingling in my pocket? Good. I have two little questions for you.
I have a quarter, a dime and a nickel. How much money DO I have?
I have three coins. How much money COULD I have?
The first question is a basic arithmetic problem with one and only one right answer. You might find it on a multiple-choice test.
The second is an open-ended question with a number of different possible correct answers. It would lend itself to a wide-ranging debate over the details: Are these all American coins? Are any of them counterfeit? Do you have any bills?
Frankly, it's a lot more interesting than the first.
Andrew Hacker is professor emeritus of political science at Queens College, City University of New York, and the author of several more-or-less contrarian books about education, some of them bestsellers.
His latest is called The Math Myth: And Other STEM Delusions. It poses many nagging, open-ended questions like the second example above, without a lot of neat, tied-up-with-a-bow answers like No. 1.
Hacker's central argument is that advanced mathematics requirements, like algebra, trigonometry and calculus, are "a harsh and senseless hurdle" keeping far too many Americans from completing their educations and leading productive lives.
He also maintains that there is no proof for a STEM shortage or a skills gap; and that we should pursue "numeracy" in education rather than mathematics knowledge. And, furthermore, that we should teach numeracy in an active, engaged, social way, with more questions like No. 2.
How do you define numeracy?
Being agile with numbers. Regarding numbers as a second language. Reading a corporate report or a federal budget. This is not rocket science--it's easy to do. Kids become numerate up through 5th or 6th grade.
And what is the difference between numeracy and mathematics?
There's a firm line between arithmetic and mathematics. When we talk of quantitative skills, 97 percent of that is arithmetic. Mathematics is what starts in middle school or high school, with geometry, algebra, trigonometry, precalculus and calculus.
Why are Americans apparently so bad at teaching and learning math?
When I say most of it is badly taught, what I really mean is that most teachers just can't really rouse enthusiasm for math among 90 percent of the students. Surely you've had such teachers.
No comment. But lots of people have raised the alarm about this. Why isn't the solution just to have math teachers, and students, work harder and do a better job?
I'm saying: No, we don't need that many people studying mathematics. We're shooting ourselves in the foot. One in five people don't graduate high school — this is one of the worst records of developed countries. And the chief academic reason is that they fail algebra — of course there are other nonacademic reasons, like prison and pregnancies. In our community colleges, 80 percent don't get a college degree. The chief reason is that 70 percent fail remedial math. And even in our four-year colleges, 40 percent don't get B.A.s [after 6 years]. And the biggest reason is they fail freshman math. We're killing our kids. We're destroying their futures because of this requirement. I think it's outrageous and we're doing a lot of harm.
But what's the alternative? Simply dumbing down the curriculum so everyone can pass?
When I first wrote the article "Is Algebra Necessary?" in the New York Times, most of the letters I got were from people who love math, are good at math and believe everybody should have to do it whether they like it or not. And again and again they talk about how mathematics teaches rigor, it's tough. There's this whole discipline thing. It's like as if math is an enforced number of pushups.
I'm not anti-math. It's a grand human achievement up there with chess and crossword puzzles.
But you don't want everyone to have to master chess to get a high school diploma.
I'm going to be very careful about what Andrew Hacker wants to be compulsory. What I would like is for math teachers, starting in high school, to make the subject so fascinating that kids will want to take it. In writing the book, I went out and sat in on two dozen math classes from Virginia to Michigan to Mississippi. In some of them — not too many — the teachers were so infectiously enthusiastic that the kids joined in. And I wish we could bottle what they do and spread it around.
What about the need for more people with STEM skills?
Well, we certainly need people who know how to do coding. When it comes to engineers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, we're producing all the engineers we need. The skills shortage is a myth. The chief shortage is getting people who will work for low wages. That's why companies in California want to bring people in on H-1B visas who will live eight in a room and do coding for a small amount above minimum wage.
What impact do you think the Common Core State Standards are having on math learning and teaching?
They're expecting everybody to get almost up to the SAT level in high school. Either there's going to be massive failures, or the states will ratchet down the requirements.
You taught your own alternative numeracy course at Queens College designed to make students more agile with numbers. How did you make the topic more appealing?
I had 19 students. I broke them up in groups of three or four. Math is always highly individualized, but in the world of work we want people to work in teams. I'd give them exercises, like, 'How would you decimalize time?' It's really cumbersome the way we do it — we have a 60-minute hour, a 24-hour day, a seven-day week. How would you make a 10-day week or a 10-month year? Six different teams can come up with six different answers to that question.
Yeah, God forbid we turn out students who can actually DO stuff, Invent stuff, Create jobs! Let's turn out all Political Science majors who don't know sh!t but who are willing to spout off for hours on end anyway. And in the interest of full disclosure, I was a Politics major.
Most students fail because they haven’t the discipline to pursue serious study in any field. Teachers are not much better.
You need innumerate, historically ignorant students to develop into good, reliable and obedient slaves. Otherwise, they get uppity.
I'd hardly call algebra "advanced mathematics." Though I will say I don't use trigonometry frequently (mostly to calculate the difference between two lat lons) and calculus even less frequently.
The chief shortage is getting people who will work for low wages.
Well, there it is, out in the open. Dumbing down the public is deliberate.
Well, we certainly need people who know how to do coding. When it comes to engineers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, we’re producing all the engineers we need. The skills shortage is a myth. The chief shortage is getting people who will work for low wages. That’s why companies in California want to bring people in on H-1B visas who will live eight in a room and do coding for a small amount above minimum wage.
Better still "gender studies" and "black studies" majors.
I never understand why they done require knowledge of compound interest. It is much more important in life than foreign language.
However boys do better in hard sciences while girls do better in languages. Guess which our education system is pushing? I would have never made it through college with a foreign language requirement. If boys have to take foreign language make girls take differential equations.
The coins remind me of welfare inequality and make me feel alienated and oppressed. I need therapy and a safe space.
Hello,Walmart shopper,I got a D in trig!
I could go down to the welfare office and whine I only have 40 cents. They could believe me and I could walk out with bulging pockets full of someone else’s hard earned money.
Lets require every citizen understands
1. How much $19 trillion dollars is (i.e. taxing bill gates won’t pay it off)
2. How much (# of millionaires X avg INCOME X 0.7) is
3. How (2) compares to the deficit (and the difference between debt and deficit)
4. % of budget for different programs
5. What happens if you take 20% of WEALTH every year
6. What will happen to the interest payments on (1) if interest rates don’t stay near 0 and how it will impact other programs (food stamps and obamacare)
When citizens think taxing millionaires and billionaires will pay for EVERYTHING and give us a surplus they vote for the person who promises to do that. Everyone on DU is clueless about the magnitudes we are talking about.
If you want a career in science or engineering, I would even say in medicine these days with all the new technologies, how are you going to do that without advanced mathematics?
If you don't want advanced mathematics, that's what the liberal arts studies are for!
Reminds me of a meme circulating on FB lately:
Want to address income inequality? Stop studying Women's Dance in the Twentieth Century and switch to Electrical Engineering!
If clerks could just count change back when the register quits it would be most helpful.
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That, and a lot of native Americans are getting out of California.
Most people, including successful and productive people, NEVER have to use advanced math in their entire lives. Let the mathematically inclined take advanced courses.
For most other people, advanced math is a completely irrelevant waste of time.
I could probably write a 20,000 word essay on this topic....but I’ll leave it to three comments.
First, about ten years ago...I had a chance to watch a German documentary piece about some kids on the path to apprenticeship (they settle up around at age 15 on some path, rather than wasting further time on high school). So the school had sent eight kids over to some baker for two or three positions that he’d offer. The baker had a ten-question test that you had to take....on top of the interview. These were all simplified math questions. What is 1/6th of an hour, or one-quarter of 60 pounds. It was simplified math that a 15 year old kid should be capable of doing. One kid answered about half of the questions....the rest were totally unable to answer more than one question of the ten asked. The baker just looked at the camera crew and asked....what exactly were these kids doing for the last eight years?
Second. I was a marginalized math student all the way through the ninth grade....strictly C-minus type math skills. For four years straight, I had four separate math instructors who were miserable at math. Then I came to a new school, who had a math instructor who just handed me the book and barely gave me a 15-min lecture per day. Suddenly, I went to a A-plus situation in a matter of weeks. This guy knew how to take math discussions and apply every issue to a business or real-life problem. He made absolute sense out of this. The next year, I picked the most difficult math class that the school offered and excelled. Our grasp of teaching math....is screwed up. If we built it into business situations or life issues...it’d be simpler to understand.
Third, face facts. Ninety-nine percent of what we need in America ARE NOT rocket-scientists. Rather than waste time or effort....let’s find a way to herd these kids into challenging math classes and let’s allow the rest of these kids to get a simple dose of business math and not waste assets or time on things of zero value.
Both responses are right. We could have 100% graduation rates if we dumb down enough. One point of doing math is that it makes the teenage brain concentrate enough until the task is mastered. No matter that math details are soon enough “rusty.”
The benefit is in the “doing.” I struggled with higher math, but it made me mentally stronger. Later, when I pursued other endeavors, I had the ability to organize the problem, develop possible solutions and then THINK until the problem was solved or the material mastered. You don’t get those skills in pre-general studies or gender confusion majors.
Oldplayer
No.
NPR is trying to demand “student groups teach students in groups.”
Because NPR readers and writers and editors CANNOT DO MATH anymore. Never had to memorize (exercise their minds) in basic times tables, basic addition, basic subtraction and division.
And their “teachers” graduated from ever-more stupified “college” literature and education classes cannot do it either.
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