Unearthed: Chris Matthews Reports Obama Born In Indonesia And Has Islamic Background

http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/09/unearthed-video-chris-matthews-reports.html ^ | Sep 23, 2015

[Ray76]

Chris Matthews reported back on December 18th, 2007 that 2008 presidential candidate Barack Obama was born in Indonesia and has an Islamic background.

Video at link

[Fantasywriter]

‘The best evidence rule would be a perfectly acceptable reason for a judge to issue a court order for inspection of the vault edition Certificate of Live Birth.’

The Chihuahua of obot trolls is yammering again.

[DiogenesLamp]

It's being certified as true in substance. It is not being certified as to form, as an electronic image obviously isn't in the same form as a paper original.

It is certified to be an abstract of a record which may have been put in their files in 1961, or a different record which may have been put into their files in 1964 (Soetoro Adoption) or even a different record which may have been put into their files in 1971 (Obama Sr. giving up custody) or even a different record that may have been put into their files around 2008. (Obama lawyers getting a court ordered amended birth certificate to reflect what they want it to say.)

What they have certified, is that something which has been put into the files is what we are showing you now.

Again, I am adopted. I have a fake birth certificate too. It was put into their files, and now that is the only one they will show you. The state in which I was born also has a cutesy clever legal dodge to avoid giving away the fact that it's a fake, replacement birth certificate.

They say " I hereby certify the foregoing to be a true and correct copy, original of which is on file in this office."

A casual read will have you believing you are seeing an original document. If you parse it out, you realize that they are telling you that they have the original on file in their office. They are also telling you that what you are seeing is a "true and correct copy."

What they are *NOT* telling you is that what you are seeing is *NOT* a true and correct copy of the original, it is a true and correct copy of the REPLACEMENT, but they let you believe that it is a true and correct copy of the original, because that's what they are deliberately implying.

Very clever lawyer hair splitting that.

The point is to protect adopted children from learning through their birth certificate that they are adopted, so the state's ability to lie about birth certificates is built into the system. The 50 states collectively lie about 120,000 birth certificates every year.

There is much hanky panky going on regarding Obama's birth certificate, and if people are overly suspicious of that lying sack of sh*t's credentials, well then he's earned it.

[CpnHook]

So what they do is certify that it could be an original, or it could be an abstract of a record in their files, which means they won't tell us exactly what it *IS*

And no one who understands our system for recording and certifying births in this Nation (being it a State Secretary or U.S. Congressman) questions the sufficiency of Hawaii's certification or sees anything unusual about it. Compare this, oh brain-less one:

Notice the certification form at the bottom?

"This is to certify that this is a true and correct reproduction or abstract of the official record filed in this office."

Wow. I guess the state of North Carolina is another of those "weasel word" states that just won't say what it *IS.* Right?

But in your goofy view of the world, the Secretary of State of North Carolina in 2012 should have rejected the Hawaii form which was produced because the "or abstract thereof" language made it legally insufficent. What a load of B.S. you shovel out.

Take off the "tunnel vision" glasses you wear and see things in their broader context for once. You might actually learn something and sound intelligent.

[DiogenesLamp]

And no one who understands our system for recording and certifying births in this Nation (being it a State Secretary or U.S. Congressman) questions the sufficiency of Hawaii's certification or sees anything unusual about it. Compare this, oh brain-less one:

And here you trot out the ole "argumentum ad vericundiam" fallacy. No thanks. Dealt with it too many times. Yes, there are a lot of stupid people in positions of authority nowadays. The country has gotten more infantile since World War II.

Wow. I guess the state of North Carolina is another of those "weasel word" states that just won't say what it *IS.* Right?

And here's the old "tu quoque." Because one state does something stupid or deceitful, it should justify other states doing something stupid or deceitful.

It also completely overlooks the point that such a certification of an abstract is perfectly reasonable for "Joe Smith" to get his driver's license, but is quite insufficient when it directly impacts compliance with a Constitutional law. A nation can tolerate a useful fiction to serve a good purpose regarding the adoption of children, but a nation can not, and ought not tolerate this sort of subterfuge when it directly impacts a Constitutional requirement to meet qualifications to be President.

All state laws should have fallen like wheat before a scythe when they are put into confrontation with Constitutional law.

The Default standard implicit in the wording of article II should be to require a person to establish proof of eligibility, not to assert they have it until proven otherwise.

But as I said, the Nation has become far more infantile and stupid since World War II, you being but one example of the decline.

[Fantasywriter]

‘In all cases in which someone certifies that something will be either a “bag of gold” *or* a “bag of sh*t”, it’s a safe bet that the bag will always contain sh*t.’

Haha! Excellent!

[DiogenesLamp]

:)

[Nero Germanicus]

It was Congress that came up with the federal rules of evidence in 1975 but any judge can interpret them as he or she sees fit.
They are guidelines, not laws. Most judges tend to follow them pretty closely though.
Congress and state election officials don’t use them at all.

In the interest of resolving the birth certificate component of the Obama/natural born citizen issue once and for all, I wish that someone had been able to convince a judge or congressional committee chair that there was a legitimate reason to issue a court order or a congressional subpoena for the vault edition Certificate of Live Birth. But that never happened.

[CpnHook]

It is certified to be an abstract of a record which may have been put in their files in 1961, or a different record which may have been put into their files in 1964 (Soetoro Adoption) or even a different record which may have been put into their files in 1971 (Obama Sr. giving up custody) or even a different record that may have been put into their files around 2008.

And Hawaii stating officially that the information on the WH image matches that on the original record on file points us to the 1961 version and excludes any of the other suppositions you list.

Even assuming there was a subsequent adoption by Lolo and a replacement certificate issued, what is shown by the White House doesn't list Lolo as birth father -- it lists BHO. This gets to what I've now twice said: the adoption theory fails and in the end simply affirms what the White House image claims. If what Hawaii was trying to do is avoid giving to Obama the "most recent version" showing Lolo as father and they had to dig back into the sealed records to find the original, then what the WH is showing then IS a copy of the original, pre-adoption certificate. (It's most certainly not reflecting a replacement certificate by which the African and S.A. purported to adopt the child).

Again, I am adopted.

And your obsession with this topic might rightly be attributed to over-personalization on that account.

They say " I hereby certify the foregoing to be a true and correct copy, original of which is on file in this office."

Clever indeed.

What they couldn't say though if someone were to submit to them a copy of your B.C. is that the information on that copy "matches the information on the original record on file." Though Hawaii has done that as to the WH copy.

[Nero Germanicus]

And speaking of Chihuahua, that’s where Mitt Romney’s father, George was born.

Yip!
Yip, yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip yip!
Yammer.
:-)

[DiogenesLamp]

In the interest of resolving the birth certificate component of the Obama/natural born citizen issue once and for all, I wish that someone had been able to convince a judge or congressional committee chair that there was a legitimate reason to issue a court order or a congressional subpoena for the vault edition Certificate of Live Birth. But that never happened.

It may be much ado about nothing, but Obama behaves as if he has something to hide. Hawaii behaves as if he and they have something to hide. All his lawyers and supporters behave as if he has something to hide, so color us silly if we think that maybe he has something he is hiding.

Obama may actually be a legal (14th amendment) US Citizen rather than an Alien, but his behavior has certainly been suspicious.

It's like someone running from the cops. They don't know what the guy did, but they figure he must have done something, or else he wouldn't be running.

Even if Obama was born in Hawaii, and his idiot mother was so foolish as to fly him on a plane when he was two weeks old, this still does not make him a "natural born citizen" in the meaning intended by the Declaration of Independence.

But that's another argument.

What better fits the known facts of the Obama life story is that his mother went to Washington or Canada to either abort him or deliver him up for adoption. Two Kansas parents born in the 1920s would have been very unhappy that their daughter had been impregnated by a black man. (A felony in many states at the time.) It has already been pointed out that none of Madelyn Dunham's co-workers even knew she had a grandson until he ran for the US Senate seat from Illinois. This is the behavior of a grandmother who is not proud of having such a grandson, and is consistent for what I would expect of a 1922 born Kansas woman.

Stanley Ann also was content to go to University in Hawaii that first year, but suddenly after Barry was born we find her attending the University in Washington?

What happened? Big family fight is what happened. Dad was furious that she got pregnant from a black man and threw a fit. Stanley Ann was sent to live with aunt Eleanor till the "problem" went away. At a time when Stanley Ann needed her family the most, for some reason she felt the need to be thousands of miles away.

Makes more sense than the "Official" story.

[Fantasywriter]

“I wish” blah blah blah.

The same way you wish your posts had relevance?

[Fantasywriter]

“Mitt Romney”

Dreaming of happier days when your side faced wimpy candidates, as opposed to the Trumpnado?

[DiogenesLamp]

And Hawaii stating officially that the information on the WH image matches that on the original record on file points us to the 1961 version and excludes any of the other suppositions you list.

It does not. The information may have been created by an affidavit submitted by Madelyn Dunham in 1961. (The Father's birth date is wrong, and so is his race. Obviously he wasn't there providing correct information. )

If Obama was adopted in 1964 by Lolo Soetoro, then his Hawaiian birth certificate would have been replaced. If legal Guardianship was acquired by the Dunhams in 1971, the Soetoro Adoption may have been annulled, or they may have gotten the judge to issue a new birth certificate saying the same thing the original did. Probably the machinery of government regards it as a simpler methodology to create a new document rather than jumping through the hoops of unsealing an older one and sealing the second one. Maybe his third birth certificate said "Dunham" but he kept using the name "Obama" and they let him. Maybe he got that legally changed back to "Obama" after he reached the age of maturity, or perhaps when he started running for President.

I don't know. All I do know is that in this cat and mouse game of lawyer poker, you can't reliably accept anything unless it cannot possibly be interpreted in any other manner.

Obama is an atypical case, and I should not be surprised to find all sorts of weirdity regarding his legal status.

[CpnHook]

The country has gotten more infantile since World War II.

Says the man whose stock-in-trade in debate is to haul out lots of insipid photos and name-call at every turn. When will you grow up?

And here's the old "tu quoque." Because one state does something stupid or deceitful, it should justify other states doing something stupid or deceitful.

"Tu quoque" would refer to YOUR being accused of committing the same flaw. (Actually, my point above might be that, but it fits, so tough.) But most of your appeals to logical fallacies are off.

The point is that near all of the States issue certifications in similar form, and doing so is not "deceitful." I'm not talking about adoptions here. That is a special case that simply cannot be invoked to question a B.C. showing BHO and S.A. as parents unless one wishes to posit the absurd hypothetical that they went and adopted someone else's kid. But "abstract" still means to everyone that the abstracted information is true (to near all but you, it seems)

but a nation can not, and ought not tolerate this sort of subterfuge when it directly impacts a Constitutional requirement to meet qualifications to be President.

Here you're simply begging the question.

The Default standard implicit in the wording of article II should be to require a person to establish proof of eligibility, not to assert they have it until proven otherwise.

And if that were to be raised and adopted as the standard, then fine. Your problem is that such has NEVER been the practice at any time in our nation's history, so it's simply an ad hoc and self-serving argument to assert it here.

Your arguments boil down to one big whine and foot stomping rant that "I'm not the Standards Czar."

[Fantasywriter]

‘Weirdity’

Best word ever!

Btw, go easy on the obot; Watergate was his high water mark.

Think about it.

[CpnHook]

The information may have been created by an affidavit submitted by Madelyn Dunham in 1961.

Though the FAR more plausible scenario is that the information came from Kapiolani, since Kapiolani and Dr. Sinclair end up on the B.C. I've mentioned this several times now. But that "Hawaii would issue a B.C. on anyone's say-so" bit persists.

If Madelyn Dunham claimed it was a home birth, then no hospital information would have been in the record. If she came in and claimed BHO II was born at Kapiolani (but one surmises he wasn't), Hawaii would likely just await the information direct from the hospital to issue the B.C.

And if Hawaii D.O.H. is in on the "Great Conspiracy," why not just create a B.C. showing a home birth so as to avoid the possibility of Kapiolani later saying "What? we have no record he was born here!" (a non-record is not HIPAA protected).

The "Madelyn could have done it" speculation will forever remain Birther lore. But it doesn't withstand scrutiny.

All I do know is that in this cat and mouse game of lawyer poker, you can't reliably accept anything unless it cannot possibly be interpreted in any other manner.

If this had arisen in 1988, the controversy would have died upon Hawaii issuing the COLB. (Janice Okubo is right; it should have ended at that point). But for the Internet, with its slew of amateurs-turned-self-proclaimed-experts, the whole bit of "this photograph looks suspicious, I see odd-looking fonts, I'm not seeing a raised seal, blah, blah, blah" wouldn't have happened. It would have been reported that Hawaii had issued a B.C., and that would have been it.

(The Father's birth date is wrong, and so is his race. Obviously he wasn't there providing correct information. )

A lot of Dads were absent from the hospital at birth-time in the 60's, even among the ones still involved with the mother beyond the moments of conception. Nothing new under the sun here.

If Obama was adopted in 1964 by Lolo Soetoro, then his Hawaiian birth certificate would have been replaced.

Right. Meaning the original BHO-as-father certificate would have been pulled out of the books and locked away. But that just means the WH image reflects THE original (which is what Hawaii keeps saying).

If legal Guardianship was acquired by the Dunhams in 1971, the Soetoro Adoption may have been annulled, or they may have gotten the judge to issue a new birth certificate saying the same thing the original did.

Occam's Razor. You're multiplying entities beyond necessity. How about instead of a Lolo adoption (proof for which is lacking) and then a subsequent annulment of that adoption with a new 'original' certificate (which is complete speculation based on an earlier speculation), followed by even more speculation about what may have happened in later years, we posit that there was simply ONE birth certificate with BHO as father -- and that's why Hawaii states what's shown on the WH image matches what they have on file as the original record?

Much simpler.

[noinfringers2]

My research about Obama goes back several/many years. From such I conclude that mama Stanley Ann during her teen aged flings in SE Asia connected with a cult led by a guy named Muhammed Subuh (check him out on web pages). Subuh was a communist ( mama Stanley Ann and her family loved communists)cult leader. Stanley Ann was kicked out of the cult by angry members who did not take to the leader bedding a white girl. Stanley Ann then went back to Hawaii where daddy and mamma fixed her up with a communist Kenyon university student who was willing to be a surrogate daddy. However the Kenyan already had a wife in Kenya and Hawaii did not allow plural marriages. So mamma had to go to Kenya to give birth. This is what tied/ties Obama to Kenya. There is much more to the history of Obama from inception in SE Asia to presence in a California college to Chicago. Someday all will know. Check out the history of Stanley Ann’s friendship with a well known keeper of Hawaiian records Fuddy and her demise in a controversial plane crash off Molokai.

[Conservative Gato]

Bookmark for later.

[Nero Germanicus]

Donald Trump’s mother was born on the Isle of Lewis, Scotland.

Donald Trump’s older sister is Maryanne Trump Barry (born April 5, 1937), a Queens, New York native and Senior United States Circuit Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit. She is the daughter of real estate developer Fred Trump and Mary MacLeod Trump, the older sister of real estate developer and 2016 presidential candidate Donald Trump, and the mother of Dr. David Desmond, a neuropsychologist and writer. Judge Barry was appointed by President Clinton in 1999.

[Nero Germanicus]

I have zero expectation that anything that I post has relevance to you. I try not to get you discouraged.