Posted on 06/24/2015 9:13:16 PM PDT by nickcarraway
So I’m on vacation the other day, and I get a text message from my dad saying that he’s returning to the Lexus dealership service department for the second time in a day.
This surprised me. My father would never willingly go to an automobile dealership twice in a single day. The man will sometimes go entire years without setting foot in a car dealer. He is, when it comes to cars, my polar opposite: he doesn’t care. He drives 6,000 miles a year and religiously maintains his vehicles at the dealership, documenting every service, every oil change, every fuel stop in a little notebook he keeps in the glovebox. When I was a kid, his car-buying strategy was to purchase a new Camry with cash every ten years. Once, he waited 11 years. That was a big deal.
It was an even bigger deal when I finally talked Dad into deviating from his Camry loyalty and buying a Lexus, just a few months shy of his 60th birthday. But I couldn’t convince him to buy a new one. Oh, no: that would just be crazy. Instead, he bought a certified pre-owned 2005 RX330 in March 2008, ten years to the minute after he had purchased his last Camry. He sold his Camry through an ad in the paper. This is the kind of person we’re dealing with, here.
So I was really surprised when Dad told me he was heading back to the Lexus dealer for the second time in a day. And I was even more surprised to find out the reason. The first time, for an oil change. The second time, because the check engine light went on five minutes after he left the service department.
Now, ordinarily a check engine light isn’t really that much to be alarmed about. For example: the check engine light is currently illuminated in my Range Rover, which means the CarMax warranty claims people are going to be getting a call in about a week asking them to replace the Something-Or-Other Spindle, and it’ll cost eleven hundred bucks. I used to have a 2001 Audi A4, and the check engine light was a way of life. It came on for everything. The oxygen sensors. The gas cap. If it was raining. To remind you about endangered animals. When you were singing. When you were driving on dirt. When you had forgotten your grocery list.
Once, as I was leaving a restaurant, I turned on the car and the check engine light started flashing, which – according to the owner’s manual – is a sign your vehicle is about to explode like the Hindenburg. My remedy was to turn the car off and right back on. Inexplicably, the light didn’t return for months.
But a check engine light when you’re on the way home from the dealer is a red flag. Especially in a Lexus. Especially in my dad’s insanely pampered, rarely-used, 6,000-mile-a-year Lexus. So I told him it would probably be traced to something minor and quick, like they’d forgotten to reset the battery or some stupid Japanese car crap, and he’d go back, and they’d do it in thirty seconds, and he’d be on his way.
Not so.
When he got back to the dealer, they gave him a loaner car and told him they’d call him with an update. And a few hours later, they called: the issue was traced to a failed oxygen sensor, and the total cost would be more than $400.
Understandably, my dad was a bit suspicious. The very first time the check engine light comes on in seven years just happens to be on the way home from the dealer after an oil change?
So I spent some time researching the issue online, and I discovered two things. Number one, it’s tremendously unlikely that a mechanic could accidentally damage an oxygen sensor while a car was in for a routine oil change. And number two, oxygen sensor failure is common on cars of this age. Almost expected. Even more common, in fact, on this generation of RX: during my research, I discovered many online RX forums full of people complaining that their sensors failed during the warranty period or just after. So I told Dad to suck it up, pay the $400 – his first penny of unscheduled repair work during the seven years he’s owned the car – and move on. Dad agreed. The next day was Father’s Day, and we spoke on the phone for about 45 minutes. The issue never even came up. Dad was resigned to pay the money, fix the problem, forget about it, and chalk it up to a funny coincidence.
And then came Monday.
On Monday, the dealer called and told him the problem was indeed the oxygen sensor, and it would indeed be more than $400 to fix. But he wouldn’t be paying for it. The service advisor had talked it over with his manager, and they decided the dealer would cover the entire repair, on the theory that the problem might have happened during the oil change, however slight a possibility that was. In other words: the dealer had decided to cover a pricey repair on an 11-year-old car that was four years out of warranty because there was some small chance a part had gotten nicked during an oil change.
And this brings me back to the title of today’s column. You see, my dad is looking for a new car to replace my mom’s aging Ford Escape, and I’ve been trying to convince him to get something a little hipper than a Toyota or Lexus. Maybe a Land Rover. A Mercedes. An Audi. A Volvo. And up until this week, he’s been somewhat receptive to the idea. He’s over 65 now, he’s never had a European luxury car, and I think he wouldn’t mind spoiling himself a little.
And then: a check engine light. A $400 part. A free service loaner on an unannounced visit to the service department. And a Lexus dealer proving the brand’s well-earned reputation for the best customer service in the industry.
The only question now is what color Dad’s next RX will be.
I was all set to buy a "Yugo Girl" once but my wife nixed the deal.
Women are strange like that...
Paragraph 2 confused me:
“The man will sometimes go entire years without setting foot in a car dealer. . . . He drives 6,000 miles a year and religiously maintains his vehicles at the dealership, documenting every service, every oil change....”
Does he “go entire years” without oil changes?
Or, does he just go entire years without maintaining them “at the dealership”?
In either case, it doesn’t sound like “religiously” is the appropriate word.
“There’s a reason why a Lexus dealer’s repair shop can afford to be generous.”
Somewhat. I think the “luxury” car dealers are giving better deals these days.
We looked at a Jeep Cherokee and it came in at a high price. BMW offered a better SUV, an X1 35i, for the exact same price with all maintenance except tires and gas included, even brakes are included. The dealer is a no-haggle dealer with excellent prices and out in 1 hour. They have literally more people than I can count on staff doing maintenance, sales, car washes, concierge, training for customers (’Genius’), loaner cars for any reason (150 loaner cars in their fleet), you name it. FULL service dealership. Even “Gap Insurance” is part of the deal.
The Jeep dealer could barely care less we were there and their “deal” was lousy. Their maintenance shop and parts department are a mess and have zero service. I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee, nice vehicle sort-of but it will be my last one. (squeaks and rattles, shifter takes forever to go into park, and you cannot turn off the radio! No kidding. You can only turn it down, but never off.)
I also ride BMW motorcycles and the same great service is there.
I have a friend that drives only Lexus due to the great service he gets in his area from Lexus. The price for a Lexus is also inline with any other car brand, as with BMW.
Sure, both Lexus and BMW have vehicles with prices go well into the six figure range, but their lower end vehicles are great buys.
Keep in mind that a common cause of O2 sensor related check engine lights is a loose or broken gas cap.
So, if thats what the issue really was, for the cost of a $10 cap (or a mechanic’s time to tighten it) and telling your Dad they were “replacing” the $400 O2 sensor for free, he’s going to spend tens of thousands of dollars with them on a new car.
Now Toyota made cars (and Lexus is Toyota’s luxury brand) are just as top notch as they get. My family has owned Toyotas almost exclusively for years, because of their high reliability and low cost of ownership. They’re the first car I’d recommend to anyone.
But caveat emptor still applies. As others have said, get an OBDII scanner, use it to pull the codes and then research what’s being thrown before engaging with any sort of mechanic (dealer or otherwise) for a fix.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=2000+cadillack+window+repair
window repair is not difficult. You’ll find the parts are probably reasonable. As for the air, I’d Google it and see what you come up with. I’ll wager it’s the clutch. It’ll cost you a few hours and a few bucks. But you might check the wiring to it first. You can probably hot wire it to see if it comes on. Then just rig a switch inside the car.
How did you get to three? Didn;t the first two at least give you a hint? Just asking.
“The O2 sensor coming on is a scam to get you to bring it in to the dealer charge you $300 for pressing a hidden button. “
I have 4 on my Jeep and some have only 2. One (supposedly) have to change all 4 as the remaining sensors might screw up. Just changed mine months ago and drove it for 2 months before my mechanic cautioned me “OK, it might screw up eventually”.
Three different cars. You don’t have much choice with ethanol anymore.
Oh. The BMWs. I did t have a choice, really. Wife.
thank you, sweetie, but I’m a girl. I know nothing about cars. I just wanted to know if it’s worth putting any more money into this car. 1K seems outrageous.
Pretty smart!!
One thousand dollars is about two or three car payments. If you can invest $1k and get one year of service out of the car, then it’s a good deal. (I’m assuming the rest of the car is in reasonable condition and the tires will last a year also.)
Incidentally, I’ve learned one heck of a lot about how to troubleshoot and repair a car from a few ladies in my Mustang club. You might Google car clubs and see if one suits your fancy. They are the best way to find the cheapest solutions. Also, do not go to the dealer! They are typically the worst deal in town.
I sweated bucket's...it's Oklahoma..in the summertime.
Ugh.....
I would not want to die and leave my debt for my children to pay when by careful planning and management I could die debt free.
The car (a blue 2000 caddy) still runs well.
It always starts without hesitation, motor sounds good, tires are not worn and it still looks great-especially the inside. The inside looks almost new.
The previous owner bought it new. He was a paraplegic ( I know this is true, because a small portion of the apparatus that enabled him to drive it is still present in the car)
I don’t imagine he gave the car much rough treatment.
Records show he maintained it well.
I don’t know what you mean that a car club could help me.
I Googled and didn’t see any around this area.
When it comes to mechanical things, I’m at a complete loss.
Helpless.
Maybe if I could find a place that would be able to get the expensive parts from a junked caddy somewhere.
Do you really think all dealerships are not honest?
(honest question) I bought it from Auto Nation.
I just don’t know what to do. I can’t afford car payments.
Thank you so much for your input.
Katy
.
Tell me what area you’re in and I will see what I can find out for you. (I’m in Tallahassee, Florida.) Car clubs are awesome resources for honest mechanics and body repair. I’d put in your city name and “car club.” Then go to a meeting and tell them your problem. Even a car club specialized in sports cars can lead you to a reliable mechanic.
As for auto dealerships...my uncle was a silent partner in several GM dealerships. Their business model is to make almost no money on new cars. They make their money on repairs. They typically charge over $100 per hour. Plus they have a spectacular markup on parts. They attempt to get by with a few real mechanics and lots of unskilled cheap labor. The guy who serviced my new JETTA TDI used a power wrench and stripped out all of the screws holding in the fuel filter. He put it back together with blue RTV rather than replacing the housing, which would have cost probably $150. I’ve had numerous similar experiences with other cars over the years. You will almost always leave a dealership with a new problem or a scratch or two.
You want a small operation that gets along by word of mouth and stands behind their work. I took my Toyota Tundra to a single guy and told him that I suspected the master cylinder was bad as the pedal went almost to the floor and it had 100k miles on it. I authorized him to replace it. When I called back that afternoon and asked how much I owed he said $26. It turned out all I needed was an adjustment on the back drum brakes. He could have sold me a master cylinder and didn’t. He doesn’t advertise. He uses referrals only. I have taken many people to him over the years and they’ve all been happy. One guy who really wanted his engine rebuilt, he talked out of fixing the car entirely. (It was an aluminum engine and once they’ve been overheated they often fail again. He could have made almost $2,000. Instead he made nothing.)
The reason I went to him was the dealership had a fault tree for a problem I took to them. They didn’t start at the most probable item, which was clearly marked on their diagram. They started with the most expensive thing. When I got their tree and looked at it I was furious and that was the last time they saw me. A salesman told me that his last dealership had told the service writers to make at least $1,000 per car, or else.
The car sounds awesome and well worth the money to get it repaired.
Thank you, Gen. (see private reply as to where I live)
Those Caravans are either lemons or 300,000+ mi. cars, vast majority being the latter. I know people who use them essentially as their low riding, covered work truck.
Even though they don’t make them anymore the Grand Caravan with a towing package is the vehicle I intend to replace my Trailblazer with.
“my new guy (probably long term) wants me to buy a new car.”
Guys are all about efficiency and utility in vehicles so this is a red flag. IMO he is either bi-sexual or is working an angle. He may be using you to do something for himself. Red flag.
My advice: Keep the Caravan. Look into him being bi. Ask for a Hep-C test.
Thank you for your thoughts on my 1996 Caravan with 107,000 miles. After a serious talk, my guy is now teaching me how to drive his stick shift Honda so that we can take turns driving on long trips. We can keep the Caravan for trips to Lowes, Home Depot, and the dump. His main angle is that he wants to be able to use my one car garage when he is in town, which is most of the time. When I explained that my NEW car would live in my garage and that he would have to get a license with much higher costs to park in my jurisdiction, that seemed to make the difference. We have been friends for 38 years, and we have been an exclusive item ever since a year after my husband’s death in 2005. He and I are both compatibly tight with our money. I believe we will be together for the rest of our lives. Thank you for caring.
One more thought. I really like the good mpg on my 4 cylinder Caravan. I was thinking of eventually replacing with a 5 to 10 year old Sienna van. I don’t know if they make a 4 cylinder. If I have to get 6, is that a good replacement choice, and do you know how I can tell a good used one from a lemon? I realize that if there is a repair history, that is a good thing to check.
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