Posted on 06/17/2015 12:57:57 PM PDT by GraceG
There has been vigorous debate in the Free Republic Forums recently between the propel who think the TPP and TPA are good and that we need Free Trade, and the staunch protectionists out there, and the middle of the road variety like myself that don't want such things but still recognize that we need trade. We have learned many things about each other, but one of the things I have come to realize is that the "free trade" has a lot of issues.
The way I see it, the only way Free Trade will EVER work properly, (especially with China_ would be if the following domestic policies are implemented BEFORE we even consider signing a free trade pact with any country.
1. Elimination of the Minimum Wage, Let the market itself decide the cost of Labor for the Job.
2. Elimination of over 90% of current Federal and State Environmental and Labor Regulations on businesses. Complete gutting of the EPA and OSHA would be required with whatever remnant remained be turned over to the state.
3. Elimination of Federal Taxes on Goods and Service and Labor, ie. No more Income Tax, Death tax, Luxury Taxes, etc etc...
4. Drastic Tort reform in the business sphere to remove superfluous product liability laws and ambulance chasers to reduce the cost of gratuitous lawsuits on businesses. Gutting of the FDA, the FTC, and other Alphabet agencies that deal high legal costs onto businesses.
5. Remove support for Unions coming from the federal government. Make it so unions have to compete with the free market and no longer can lean on "uncle Sugar" for support, if they provide their workers a superior service and help their workers become more productive then yay, it is a win-win, if they exploit their member's fees for their own union bosses political shenanigans, then they will go bankrupt and not one will be there to bail their sorry asses out. Make it illegal for the usual union intimidation tactics to be practiced, the same tactics that would get a private citizen in trouble, but that grubermint currently looks the other way at.
Only after a MAJORITY of the above items are Complete and checked off the list can we even Entertain the idea that we can compete via "Free Trade" otherwise we are simply handing over the rope that the other totalitarian countries like China will hang us by.
Right now one of the reasons Free Traders are laughed at is because they appear to be putting the cart before the horse.
We gotta hitch up the Horses of a well running economic engine FIRST before we can successfully entertain Free Trade. This is why in our current condition free trade will ONLY work against us unless we are only free trading with countries that are congruent on the social/political/economic levels as ourselves, such as Canada, the UK, Germany, and a few other 1st world countries.
Think about it. There is no such thing as completely FREE trade. You’d have better luck trying for FREE love.
Nice post but you’ve essentially raised the bar so high that there will never be trade with any country for any reason.
Thus far, I haven’t seen anyone on Free Republic who supports TPP, nor have I heard any candidate support it. It isn’t complete yet and probably won’t be voted on until late 2016. It will be defeated.
Cruz is all for getting rid of the regulations that are strangling businesses. The repeal of Obamacare is key, also.
Very true, but 100 years of Progressivism/Liberalism isn't undone overnight. We'll have to stomach some bitter medicine to get there.
Eliminating the minimum wage, getting rid of the unions and so on would never be supported by the Democrats — or the vote whores in the Republican Party either, for that matter.
[ Eliminating the minimum wage, getting rid of the unions and so on would never be supported by the Democrats — or the vote whores in the Republican Party either, for that matter. ]
Which is why willy nilly free trade is gonna hurt like hell for our economy.
Exactly. Well thought out and outlined nicely.
Which candidates agree with this (or to what extent) and who’s willing to take on the leviathan?
Not love, and not free.
**Left Liberal Progressive Radicals invented the term so that they could dupe women and use for sex. Society is still paying dearly for that.
Free foreign trade requires a policy of laissez faire domestically. When government interference in the labor market prevents necessary adjustments in relative wage rates, free trade can result in mass unemployment, which leads to abandonment of free trade.Similarly, government subsidy programs are incompatible with free trade.
Having high taxes here hurts free trade aboard. It shows GOPe incompetence that they don’t tie lower corporate tax rates to all free trade bills.
The only solution is Utopia. that is what Obama wants a Utopia - where everything is perfect. REALITY sets in and it will not be possible. The progressive Era is so ingrained into American Society that it will take nearly 100 years to change the mindset of the next generations to see that the answer is socialism. This is what Obama wants, incremental change to the glorious collective - socialism. hey socialism is so great until you run out of other peoples money! Okay maybe I am being snide and sarcastic, but reality must set in to. In order for capitalism to work America has to have someone to trade with. Prior to WWI America’s number one trade partner - Germany. That is right!
I am a free trader. I mean to me its about liberty. The ability to trade with whom we want and with what we please.
With that said, free trade deals, often are not free. Our trade relationship with China needs to change. As it is our products must meet stringent controls and minimum requirements that Chinese products do not. That is not free trade. The Chinese government conspires with Chinese companies to steal our know how and product intelligence which is not free trade. The Chinese violate patents with very little consequence. The Chinese use prison labor for cripes sakes! And I agree with you that minimum wages put us at a disadvantage.
The argument about free trade itself, while interesting, is almost moot, because the trade relationship we have with one of our biggest relationship (China) is not even close to fair and free.
The Chinese NEED us to buy their crap, so what could they do if we change that relationship. We start putting out minimum quality requirements for their imports, and erect tariffs to offset their violations.
[ Free foreign trade requires a policy of laissez faire domestically. When government interference in the labor market prevents necessary adjustments in relative wage rates, free trade can result in mass unemployment, which leads to abandonment of free trade.Similarly, government subsidy programs are incompatible with free trade. ]
Well Said!
I agree with you.
[ The only solution is Utopia. that is what Obama wants a Utopia - where everything is perfect. REALITY sets in and it will not be possible. The progressive Era is so ingrained into American Society that it will take nearly 100 years to change the mindset of the next generations to see that the answer is socialism. This is what Obama wants, incremental change to the glorious collective - socialism. hey socialism is so great until you run out of other peoples money! Okay maybe I am being snide and sarcastic, but reality must set in to. In order for capitalism to work America has to have someone to trade with. Prior to WWI America’s number one trade partner - Germany. That is right! ]
Sooner rather than later the only way out will be a complete RESET of the entire shebang!
I am thinking on the level of the Soviet union Collapse under Gorby/Yelstin in the 90’s but for the United Socialist States of America instead of the Soviet Union....
Maybe even 2X or 3X as hard as that collapse..
[ Having high taxes here hurts free trade aboard. It shows GOPe incompetence that they don’t tie lower corporate tax rates to all free trade bills. ]
shows how damned spineless and weak sauce that Boner and turtle are.
The current minimum wage adjusted for inflation is far from the highest its ever been, which is $10.50/hr (2010 dollars) in 1965. Since trade policy by default only concerns manufactured good, raw materials or agricultural goods public sector/service unions have nothing to do with this. Private sector manufacturing unions are almost dead now. Only 10% of manufacturing workers are represented by a union.
What the NWO supporters don’t get is that it is a defense issue as well. You can’t support a military with trade deficits. Maybe some of them understand and are just trying to destroy America.
Who can support TPP when no one knows what’s in it? Don’t conflate the centuries-long recognition that free, open trade is a benefit for those involved, with whatever TPP is.
TPP is probably as much about “free trade” as Obamacare is about “health care.”
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