Apple gets partial win on appeal in Samsung patent case

Yahoo Finance News ^ | May 18, 2015 | By Andrew Chung and Julia Love

[Swordmaker]

NEW YORK/SAN FRANCISCO, May 18 (Reuters) - Apple Inc was handed a mixed ruling by a U.S. appeals court in the latest twist in a blockbuster intellectual property battle with Samsung Electronics Co Ltd, as a prior patent infringement verdict was upheld but a trademark finding that the iPhone's appearance could be protected was thrown out.

That means up to 40 percent of a $930 million verdict which had been won by Apple must be reconsidered.

In the highly anticipated ruling stemming from the global smartphone wars, the Federal Circuit in Washington, D.C. upheld patent infringement violations including one which protects the shape and color of its iPhone as well as the damages awarded for those violations.

"This is a victory for design and those who respect it," Apple said in a statement on Monday. A Samsung representative declined immediately comment.

[Swordmaker]

I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much over not opting for the 16GB model to start with. The 16 GB model of the original iPhone was not released until February 5, 2008 about 8 months after you spent 2 days waiting in line to get yours.

No line standing for me. . . I ordered it and it came to my front door.

But now we know you modded your geeky phone. . .

[Swordmaker]

Actually the PPC-6700 does have GPS built in

Not according to the specs and reviews I've read. Those said that any map functions had to connect to an external GPS via Bluetooth to function. Ergo, no internal GPS functions. I saw no mention of internal GPS antennas of functionality. . . nor does it mention anything about motion sensors. The screen changes orientation when you pull out the keyboard. It lacks all inertial sensing completely that the iPhone has built in. Sorry, it just doesn't have the degree of sensitivity to do anything like what the iPhone can do such as, for example, act as an accurate spirit level.

As for the 16GB only coming out 8 months later? There were ways to get that earlier. . . if you knew how and wanted to pay quite a bit extra. Remember, when the iPhone first came out AT&T would not subsidize it.

[fireman15]

There was less than a 1% build out of 3G in 2005. In fact, when your phone was released in 2005, CDMA was only live in the San Francisco Bay area.

Absolutely not true! Maybe you are confused about the actual release date of the PPC-6700. It did not come out until the end of 2005. We are in the Puget Sound region. I was an early adopter but did not get mine until I believe February or March 2006. We got impressive 3G performance through out our area from Olympia to Everett and in most places along the I-5 Corridor. 3G worked fine in the Portland- Vancouver area as well. And Sprint released the PPC-6700 not Verizon and initially Sprint had the more developed 3G network.

Although as I assume you are aware Sprint and Verizon had reciprocal agreements. My brother is an airline plot and had a Verizon PCMIA card for his laptop. The performance of his PCMIA card was nearly identical to that of my phone only he had to pay dearly for it every month. But he was able to use it at nearly every major airport in the country by the end of 2006

Years later when the iPhone was released my best friend on the fire department immediately purchased an one. It's internet performance could only be describes as pathetic in comparison to the PPC-6700. And its performance was much closer to that of a 56k modem than the theoretical performance you claim. But you do make me laugh with your nonsensical claims.

As for your comment about Steve Jobs changing the iPhone’s screen at the last minute. . . that occurred in NOVEMBER-DECEMBER 2006, in the weeks before the announcement.

Just like your claim that the 16GB version of the original iPhone was available when it was first released at the end of June 2007 when it actually wasn't released until February of 2008... your timeline is contradicted by the historical record and even Steve Job's biographer. Quoting from the New York Times.

“I Want a Glass Screen’

In 2007, a little over a month before the iPhone was scheduled to appear in stores, Mr. Jobs beckoned a handful of lieutenants into an office. For weeks, he had been carrying a prototype of the device in his pocket.”

“In mid-2007, after a month of experimentation, Apple’s engineers finally perfected a method for cutting strengthened glass so it could be used in the iPhone’s screen. The first truckloads of cut glass arrived at Foxconn City in the dead of night, according to the former Apple executive. That’s when managers woke thousands of workers, who crawled into their uniforms — white and black shirts for men, red for women — and quickly lined up to assemble, by hand, the phones. “

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=2&ref=charlesduhigg&pagewanted=all

I think it is possible that you are making some of these claims without malice... that you simply don't know much of anything about non-Apple products and their development and rely on equally ignorant people for your information about non-Apple products. At least I am hoping that is the explanation. I do not know a great deal about Apple products, but I do know a lot about the non-Apple products that I have years of experience with.

For instance, the GPS built into the PPC-6700 was usable only usable for Sprint navigation services that one had to pay extra for. There was a concerted effort in the modding community to unlock this feature which was never successful. I am not sure why, if you download the following pdf you will be able to see that it was an advertised feature... one which I actually did use on occasion, before purchasing a Bluetooth GPS device.

http://www.sprint.com/dealerrewards/PPC6700SP_flier.pdf

It is difficult to keep up with someone whose fertile imagination is willing to make up whatever “facts” he needs to support his arguments. I am sorry we went down this road together because although I have always considered you a great resource here on Apple products; I now realize that everything you claim must be double checked. And when you disagree with someone you almost immediately call them a liar and make sincere sounding claims that actually are just made up. It reminds one a great deal of political debate with the Clintons or the Obama administration. Fortunately no one is probably following this discussion, because as far as I am concerned you have done a great deal of harm to your credibility. I find that very sad and especially over a subject that is obscure to most people.

[fireman15]

The screen changes orientation when you pull out the keyboard. It lacks all inertial sensing completely that the iPhone has built in.

Again just another of your false claims made about a device you have no first hand knowledge of. Do you think that maybe someone who has had one for many years might remember calibrating the “G-sensor” on more than one occasion? Which famous military commander said that It is what you think that you know that just isn't so that is the most dangerous? If you had actually done even the most cursory search using Google you would have found that there were many questions about how to calibrate the sensors... but you would rather call me a liar wouldn't you?

[fireman15]

As for the 16GB only coming out 8 months later? There were ways to get that earlier. . . if you knew how and wanted to pay quite a bit extra.

Yes I am familiar with that way of getting electronic devices that have not been released yet.. You send a large money order to someone who claims they will send you the device. The only down side is that usually they don't send you the yet to be released device at all or not until after it is released.

The primary difference between you and I when first taking a look at the iPhone is that I had been using another device for many months that was more useful to me than the first iPhone could ever have been. You were probably using a Nokia or Motorola flip phone or something similar. I used the PPC-6700 to get a low cost high speed internet connection on my laptop every time I went to the fire station for many years. The PPC had a connection speed that was nearly as fast as DSL and even cable modems of the time period. The iPhone may have had a theoretical 256k connection but it typically performed at less than what you would get with a 56k modem in our area. I can still type much faster on a slide out keyboard to create documents, emails or texts than I have ever been able to on a phone screen. And yes the PPC-6700 could be used with its internal GPS for navigation, and yes it has a sensor so you could use it as a "spirit level" if you wanted. You have got it backwards... the iPhone was the "toy" and the PPC was a serious communications tool. But I have to hand it to Apple... their ability to market toys to adults has no equal.

[Swordmaker]

Yes I am familiar with that way of getting electronic devices that have not been released yet.. You send a large money order to someone who claims they will send you the device. The only down side is that usually they don't send you the yet to be released device at all or not until after it is released.

As usual, you make a huge assumption that is totally false. The proper way is to have someone who is a family member who then worked at Apple. . . such as a nephew. . . and knew the inside track.

You claim that your device was better then the iPhone when all the reviews claim it was NOT. Your anecdotal claims just do not match the claims of history. Your claims of the iPhone getting a connection of less than a 56K connection in your area fall into that category. I travelled across the country using one and lost signal for only a total of three hours. . . and the data speed was quite good. I am technically skilled, not a fireman, and know far better than do you what I am talking about.

And yes the PPC-6700 could be used with its internal GPS for navigation, and yes it has a sensor so you could use it as a "spirit level" if you wanted. You have got it backwards... the iPhone was the "toy" and the PPC was a serious communications tool.

You seem to pull "data" out of your rear end . . .

If there was a GPS in your PPC-6700 why do NONE of the reviews or any of the technical reviews say NOT ONE THING about it. . . and in fact, claim that the mapping functions work only with a connection to an external Bluetooth GPS device. You make absolutely NO sense. Not a single of them mention that it had anything like motion sensors installed in it, and you would think that it would mention such an innovation.

YOU are desperately making stuff up to suit your argument. If I am wrong, provide a link proving that your toy has X,Y,Z directional motion sensors built into it. Put up or shut up, Fireman15.

In fact, in relation to your claimed GPS, a Google search for PPC-6700 GPS just turned this up:

"Once and for all, the (PPC-)6700 has E911 GPS only, it cannot be used wtih turn by turn gps applications. If you really want/need some form of inaccurate navigation and don't want to buy a bluetooth gps unit, your options are Microsoft Live Search, Google Maps, or Navizon." — Source XDA Developers forum on XV6700, PPC-6700 ROM development

A search for the E911 GPS finds that E911 GPS reveals that it is a WIFI empowered GPS system that works by triangulating specialized VERIZON ONLY WIFI hotspots and cell towers, and then trying to calculate over the internet where the handset is located. It is NOT a Geopositioning Satellite System, it's a cheap Kludge to avoid having to pay for onboard GPS hardware and licensing. It's accuracy is approximately +/-350 feet. What a joke. E911 is intended only for general area location for emergency 911 calls, not for accuracy for GPS directional use or driving or location use. You are grasping at straws.

A Google search for PPC-6700 and motion sensors returns ZIP.

[House Atreides]

You have the patience of a saint as you deal with that (and others also) low-information troll.

[fireman15]

You are quite good at casting nonsensical dispersions that sound convincing, but anyone who does a search with the terms PPC-6700 and G-Sensor will come back with thousands of results mentioning the sensor that you claim it doesn't have.

http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/htc-touch-pro/83147-g-sensor-will-not-calibrate-says-complete-then-bubbles-jump-back.html

As far as the GPS... you must not be looking very hard. It was an advertised feature... I even included a link to a PDF file of an ad from the time period in one of my posts. I used the Sprint navigation GPS app that came installed and it worked well, but it was a feature that they charged for and was never cracked by the modding community. It used the GPS system and not triangulation using cell towers. Please take the time to read the following flyer in PDF format:

http://www.sprint.com/dealerrewards/PPC6700SP_flier.pdf

Well I am glad that you have a “nephew” who was on the “inside track” at Apple and you didn't send your hard earned money off to a scammer.

And regardless of your claim that you got data speed that was “quite good” we actually tested it and it was quite bad in our area... typically less than a 56k modem, while the PPC-6700 in the same locations could peak out at up to around 2Mbps but more typically did around 600Kbps to 1.2Mbps. There simply was no comparison. I am sure that there are plenty of people here who have some recollection of the 2G iPhone's pathetic internet speeds. Why do you suppose they upgraded it to 3G? Gee I don't know.

Well congratulations for being “technically skilled, not a fireman, and know far better than do you what I am talking about.” I was actually a leader of the hazmat team and am fairly technically proficient myself, having worked in the computer lab in College and sometimes filling in for professors when they weren't able to make it to a class. When any of the Chiefs or my co-workers needed assistance with a non-network related computer question they often called me instead of someone in the IT department. I was often tasked with projects that generally would not fit with my normal job description.

Despite ample demonstrations of your ignorance in this thread I have never questioned your knowledge of Apple products. You just don't know much of anything about non-Apple products... and you fill in the blanks with your imagination. It feels more than a little pathetic and may make it seem to others that you are more of a poser than an expert.

[fireman15]

If you are going to be calling someone a “low-information troll” it is considered good etiquette to include them in the message. I agree that Swordmaker is very knowledgeable about Apple products, but he is spreading a lot of misinformation here about non-Apple products some of which I have a great deal of first hand knowledge of.

If you would like me to post proof of this for you; just ask what it is you think that I am incorrect about and I will try and find a link that will verify my first hand knowledge. Swordmaker is commenting on devices that he has never seen let alone held in his hand.

[fireman15]

Here is a link to the “Phone Scoop” webpage that lists the specs of hundreds if not thousands of cell phones. Since you do not seem very good at checking out links I provide, I have also cut and pasted the relevant section on the GPS:
“GPS / Location Yes”

http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=808

Also the Mobile GMaps for Pocket PC App claims that the ppc-6700 is supported. I never tried this app, but I do know that a GPS chip is included in the device. It was a frequent topic of discussions all of those years ago. As I said previously, I did not know that developers had figured how to make use of it other than using the paid Sprint GPS App which worked well. Quotes like the one you found from one poster on the XDA Forums claiming the device had no GPS were disproven. Not that it made any real difference to me at the time; the work-around for me was buying an inexpensive Holux Bluetooth GPS for $40 on eBay. After that I didn’t pay much attention. I hadn’t thought about it much until you started arguing with me here as if it were something meaningful to debate.

[House Atreides]

If you are going to be calling someone a “low-information troll” it is considered good etiquette to include them in the message.... Swordmaker is spreading a lot of misinformation here about non-Apple products some of which I have a great deal of first hand knowledge of.

If you would like me to post proof of this for you; just ask what it is you think that I am incorrect about and I will try and find a link that will verify my first hand knowledge....”
*****************************************************************************************************
No thanks, I’m not interested in dialoging with you and I certainly don’t want you to develop a fixation on me and begin trolling directed at me.

[fireman15]

OK, I get it. You have no interest in the accuracy of what is being stated. You only wanted to post your support for Swordmaker. I am sure Swordmaker is a great guy and he has been helpful to me in other discussions on Apple products. However you might want to consider who actually fits the definition of “low-information troll”. It is someone who interjects themselves into a conversation with no interest or knowledge of the subject and starts calling someone names to get a reaction. A “troll” is not someone who is making an effort to share what he knows about a product he actually has owned for many years. You might want to take a look in the mirror.

[Swordmaker]

It is difficult to keep up with someone whose fertile imagination is willing to make up whatever “facts” he needs to support his arguments. I am sorry we went down this road together because although I have always considered you a great resource here on Apple products; I now realize that everything you claim must be double checked. And when you disagree with someone you almost immediately call them a liar and make sincere sounding claims that actually are just made up. It reminds one a great deal of political debate with the Clintons or the Obama administration. Fortunately no one is probably following this discussion, because as far as I am concerned you have done a great deal of harm to your credibility. I find that very sad and especially over a subject that is obscure to most people.

I am not making up any facts, Fireman. The E911 GPS in your phone was not a true turn-by-turn GPS and your TeleNav GPS software only worked with an external BlueTooth GPS system if you wanted any thing close to accuracy. That is why your Modders were not successful in "unlocking" the GPS. THERE WERE NO GPS ANTENNAS IN YOUR PHONES and the radio was not GPS capable. It is really that simple.

"yeah but you miss the big picture. a chip isnt worth a hill of silicone if you dont have an antenna to hook to it" — Source XDA Developers Forum VX6700, PPC6700 ROM Developers

I have double checked my facts I have posted on here. . . and your facts are the ones that are lacking proof. Just because some myths may disagree with the historical facts, does not make me wrong. I have sources that disagree. . . and I was there, and disagree with your anecdotes and myths. I have provided source material and links. This last post of yours is the first time you have provided any links at all. Bravo for you.

Again, Google, Bing, and DuckDuckGo are your friends. A search of using Telenav GPS with the PPC-6700 revealed this gem in response to the question "Can I use TeleNav GPS Navigator with my new Sprint PPC-6700?":

"no, now that you've dropped 600 bux on your nice new device be prepared to go out and buy an addon GPS unit ...... sucks dont it?"

and:

"I tried getting Telenav to work using Microsoft's Webshere which plays java. I think that would have bee nthe only possible way to get it to work. I got it to load the program but it would just hang where it says loading graphics. I couldnt get it past that. So I caved in and purchased a BT reciever and iGuidance. It has worked great so far. I also like that it tells you your ETA throughout the trip. Its a handy feature. Especially when having to get to work. This way you know if you need to speed up or you can start to relax because you will make it with lots of time to spare. It obviously changes as you drive. When you first punch in the addy, the ETA is based on what should be the speed limits for each road. Then as you move it will change throughout based on your speed and location. It might sound like a little feature but, I keep my gps on all the time even when I know where I am going just for this."

Other sources came up with the same results. . . it works with an external Bluetooth GPS unit, not the internal e911 GPS.

I think it is possible that you are making some of these claims without malice... that you simply don't know much of anything about non-Apple products and their development and rely on equally ignorant people for your information about non-Apple products. At least I am hoping that is the explanation. I do not know a great deal about Apple products, but I do know a lot about the non-Apple products that I have years of experience with.

I do not post things about non-Apple equipment without double checking my facts. . . and often triple checking with factory sources. YOU however, believe your own hype. You claim stuff about Apple you know only from myth and second hand information as if it were completely gospel truth. . . even though it has been disproved by many other sources. The Jobs biography has been roundly criticized for many inaccuracies from insider sources. . . and the glass screen story is one of those. FoxConn and its employees claim to this day that none of that story happened. From even the NYT story:

The company (FoxConn) disputed some details of the former Apple executive’s account, and wrote that a midnight shift, such as the one described, was impossible “because we have strict regulations regarding the working hours of our employees based on their designated shifts, and every employee has computerized timecards that would bar them from working at any facility at a time outside of their approved shift.” The company said that all shifts began at either 7 a.m. or 7 p.m., and that employees receive at least 12 hours’ notice of any schedule changes.

Foxconn employees, in interviews, have challenged those assertions.

FoxConn and its employees have no reason to argue that they cannot and did not do what was described. It would be a superior marketing claim for management, and a source of pride for its workers that they accomplished this. . . yet they ALL say it never happened.

By the way, the narrative did not come from Steve Jobs it came from an anonymous ex-Apple executive. Good source there? No. Unnamed sources can say anything they want and no one can deny it is true. Apple, as usual, remains mute.

I've told you that I'm an ex-CEO. . . I am intimately familiar with critical path planning. . . and it is very obvious to me that what the New York Times claimed was literally impossible to have happened in the time the unnamed ex-Apple executive claimed it all did.

Fireman15, think very, very critically about the so-called timeline in the New York Times story, which was part of an "exposé" of so called Apple failings, many of which later turned out to be from false narratives, including quotations from multiply discredited Michael Daisey whose documentary on this same topic was PULLED from NPR for creating quotations, mis-representing facts, falsifying videos taken at a manufacturer as being from FoxConn when they were not, etc., and when confronted with these lies, claimed he wasn't a journalist, but a performance artiste and was using artistic license in falsifying facts to get to the underlying truths as he knew they must be true, even though he had no evidence!. Examine their story about the change in iPhone screens from the view point of a businessman making that decision and see if it is at ALL feasible to do. As an ex-CEO, I did, and frankly the NYT story stinks like six week old fish.

Just six weeks before the June 29th release date, in the middle of the initial production of iPhones, the main screen, a major component of the iPhone is going to be completely re-designed from the ground up. It makes absolutely no technological sense! It is not as if Apple had not had issues with scratched screens before.

No, Apple had their share of such problems on the iPod Nano, and in fact in 2005 a class action lawsuit was filed against Apple for just such scratches on the iPod Nano screens, which Apple settled for around $30 million ($25 per iPod Nano).

1. Out of the blue, Steve Jobs notices that a product they have been testing for at least two years while under development, and which numerous Apple employees have been already been carrying in their pockets, (and that testimony in the Samsung patent infringement trial shows they had planned for quite some time to use a glass screen), and has undergone multiple laboratory durability tests, suddenly notices scratches on his iPhone's "plastic" screen. — Day ZERO

2. Steve Jobs calls an emergency meeting of the iPhone planning team and frantically announces "I want a glass screen!" — 1st Day

3. Apple executive heads for China under orders from Jobs to leave immediately. "Why are you still here?" at the meeting. — 1st Day

4. Apple immediately stops all work on the iPhones already in production at FoxConn, idling the assembly line and all the workers at millions of dollars per day in costs.— 2nd Day

5. Steve Jobs and Tim Cook scramble searching for a better than ordinary glass.— 1st Week, 5th Day

6. All already assembled iPhones are disassembled and "plastic" screen assemblies are removed and trashed high cost. — 1st Week, 7th Day

7. Steve Jobs finds Corning Glass with its unnamed miracle glass. Flies to Corning, NY, to meet with President of Corning Glass. President of Corning demonstrates a glass that is harder than anything else they have, is flexible, but they haven't found a use for it. He tells Jobs that cutting this hardened glass this hardened glass usually causes it to crack or shatter. Corning, the world's foremost developer of Glass products, has been unsuccessful in finding a way to cut this glass. — 2nd Week, 8th Day

8. Corning send several sample sheets of this hardened glass to Apple engineers in California for study and experiments. Shipped next day Air. — 2nd Week, 10th Day

9. Apple's engineers do extensive experimentation to find a way to cut "large sheets" of hardened glass into 2.4" X 3" screens and to properly curve the corners to the proper diameters, drilling the home button hole and bevel them after cutting. Normal glass is usually hardened after cutting, drilling, beveling, polishing, etc., to avoid the cracking and shattering. This was not possible with the Corning hardened glass. It had to be done post production. All of this was NOT a trivial engineering feat. (Three weeks, working seven days a week, to do this difficult research is a very conservative estimate!) — 2nd Week, 11th Day to 5th week, 33rd Day.

10. Apple Engineers find solutions to cutting, drilling, curving, beveling, polishing the hardened glass without breaking it. — 5th week, 33rd Day.

11. Once engineering has proved the Corning hardened glass CAN be cut to size, Steve Jobs orders sufficient glass for primary order of glass to meet production needs for initial shipment of iPhones for delivery to manufacturing so iPhones can be delivered to stores and customers (by June 29th!), Right sure. . . — 5th Week, 34th Day.

12. Corning ramps up production of a glass they had no use to produce before for any other purpose. Other orders will have precedence before Apple's new order. Order received — 5th Week, 36th Day

13. Apple has to locate a company in China that has sufficient space (Oh, WOW! Some entrepreneurial company just happens to be building a plant for a very similar purpose on the off chance that someone just might someday need such a thing!) and the expertise to implement Apple's new technology of cutting these large sheets into small screens. How amazingly and miraculously convenient!— 5th Week, 40th Day

14. The cutting technique that Apple engineers created has to be scaled from lab technique to an a reliable, automated manufacturing production process with a sufficiently low failure rate, not an easy task (that is what killed the Sapphire project in 2014). Again, not a trivial task. Industrial design of such equipment usually takes three to six months. Steve Jobs puts it on a rush. All stops are pulled out and job is to be done with a six weeks with complete flow charts, plumbing, schematics, electrical wiring, digital software, etc. Started. — 5th Week, 36th Day

15. Apple's executive negotiates an immediate contract with this convenient and available company with their empty factory plant. — 6th Week, 45th Day

16. Apple Legal begins back and forth necessary to coordinate contract for factory space and contract work. Minimum time usually for work like this is six weeks. — 6th Week, 48th Day

17. Design and engineer the automated cutting, drilling, bevelling, polishing machinery for production of the glass screens completed, designed to fit the space in the new factory. — 11th Week, 78th Day

18. Apple contracts with the Japanese Company that builds all of Apple's automated tools for Apple in California, then for FoxConn and later for Pegatron, to build the specialized automated hardened glass cutting, rounding, drilling, beveling, and polishing equipment to Apple's design and specifications, and then ship and install them in the newly contracted Chinese factory. These will be tools which Apple always insists on owning to assure that no other company can use them for their products. RUSH Order.— 11th Week, 79th Day

19. Contract for new factory finalized and signed. — 12th Week, 85th Day

20. Corning ships sufficient (~5,000 48" x 96" sheets to allow for breakage) the large crated glass sheets to China by some very fast transportation. With crating at 4 sheets per crate, it would take about 10 Boeing 747 loads (est. by weight), allow five to six days travel time. Or ~40 Land and Sea boxes by freighter through the Panama Canal, six weeks travel time. Apple opts for Land and Sea Boxes. — 12th Week, 87th Day

21. The Chinese Company has to get its glass cutting line set up to handle production of at least one million small glass screens with curved corners. Which, by the way, is a different question than just cutting rectangles. Company starts preparing for installation of tools per Apple specifications, installing water lines, electrical, data cable lines. — 12th Week, 88th Day

22. Japanese machine tool company ships Apple's automated glass cutting tools to Chinese factory. — 16th Week, 113th Day

23. Hire staffing for the factory.— 16th Week, 115th Day

24. Japanese Machine tools arrive at Chinese Factory and installation begins. — 17th Week, 121st Day

25. Corning Glass shipment arrives. — 18th Week, 126st Day

26. Japanese Machine tool technicians finish installation of machine tools and instruct Chinese Management in operation. — 19th Week, 135th Day

27. Train staff on the operation and control of the new equipment.— 19th Week, 137th Day

28. Test the assembly line with staff in place and work out any bugs and there will be bugs. — 20th Week, 140th Day

29. Begin production of the screens. — 21st Week, 147th Day

30. Glass is cut to size and corners are rounded to appropriate radius, hole drilled, glass screens then require all edge beveled and polished. Check QA.— 21st Week, 148th Day

31. Ramp up to be producing at least 500,000 glass screens. — 22nd Week, 154th Day

32. Package in bulk for shipment to next step in manufacture. — 22nd Week, 156th or 158th Day

33. Glass screens are shipped to LCD, Touch Screen assembler. — 23nd Week, 161st Day

34. Cut glass screens are laminated to touch sensors and LCD screens and then QA tested. — 24th Week, 168th Day

35. Screen assemblies repackaged in bulk for shipment to FoxConn. — 24th Week, 168th Day

36. Final screen assemblies shipped to FoxConn for assembly into the iPhones.— 24th Week, 170th Day

37. iPhones tested, packaged, and Air shipped to Apple port of entry and customs. — 25th Week, 175th Day

38. iPhones clear customs.— 26th Week, 182th Day

39. iPhones arrive at Apple distribution centers for delivery to Apple Stores and shipment via FedEx.— 27th Week, 186th Day — SIX MONTHS, start to finish!

All of this had to be accomplished in the six week time frame in time for delivery of up to 500,000 iPhones on the weekend of June 29th to expectant customers waiting in line at Apple Stores and to customers via FedEx.

The timeline doesn't work at all. Using conservative business estimates, using critical path reasoning, it takes SIX MONTHS to change the screens on the iPhone! It didn't happen. If you disagree, try to squeeze all those steps into the six weeks of the New York Times timeline. . . and I do not think anyone could do it. Frankly, it is impossible. . . even with Apple's miraculous abilities in organization and just in time inventory control. There are just somethings one cannot change about how business is done, no matter WHO the business is. Six months is miraculous to accomplish all this.

More evidence: The weight of the iPhone as announced on January 9, 2007 is exactly the same as the iPhone that shipped on June 29, 2007. . . yet glass is much heavier than plastic. In fact, the glass is at least three times as heavy as plastic. Oops, how can you replace a lightweight plastic screen with a heavier glass screen of the same size and thickness and NOT gain weight? Answer: You either completely re-engineer the device to lose weight somewhere else, or you cannot do it. Ergo, there was no change in materials between January and June. . . only software improvements and waiting for FCC regulatory approvals.

[fireman15]

GPS in your phone was not a true turn-by-turn GPS and your TeleNav GPS software only worked with an external BlueTooth GPS system if you wanted any thing close to accuracy.

Wow! Quite a post! Unfortunately I do not have time to go through point by point right now. I will start off however by addressing the first thing that you said, which is absolutely false. It is quite obvious that you do not take a look at any of the links that I provide. Or believe what I tell you of my first hand experiences. So there really is not much point in continuing this conversation.

That is simply not true. I used the phone with the Sprint GPS navigation software that was provided with the phone. It was very accurate and worked well for turn by turn navigation. Unfortunately, it was a pay service using the phone's Qualcomms msm6500 chipset which came standard with GPS... The GPS was locked using a proprietary method to get people to pay for the navigation service. In addition to the chipset there is a GPS antenna inside the case; navigation was not dependent on cell tower triangulation.

Here is a link to the specs for the Qualcomm MSM6500 which I know you will not bother reading:

http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a6500&c=qualcomm_msm6500

For the third or fourth time here is the other link you can't be bothered to look at that shows Sprint was advertising the feature. I am sure no one would have complained if the phone didn't have GPS navigation available when Sprint advertised it /sarc:

http://www.sprint.com/dealerrewards/PPC6700SP_flier.pdf

There were people who claimed to have found a work-around, but nothing was ever released to the public to get the internal GPS to work with unauthorized GPS software. The very first generation of phones did not have the GPS locked and people who had those phones and did not have difficulty using GPS navigation software available at the time up until they took the first firmware update.

There is some conflicting and erroneous information out there posted by people like you I suppose so if your only goal is to continue to deluding yourself then there is probably not much more that I will be able to do for you. I have done my best to provide you with accurate info and links to documentation. I am sorry that it conflicts with your world view.

[fireman15]

I've told you that I'm an ex-CEO.

Actually, I think that you might have told someone else that; but it does explain a lot, so thank you.

[Swordmaker]

You are quite good at casting nonsensical dispersions that sound convincing, but anyone who does a search with the terms PPC-6700 and G-Sensor will come back with thousands of results mentioning the sensor that you claim it doesn't have.

Who are you trying to fool? That link is for an PPCGeeks > Windows Mobile > WM HTC Devices > HTC Touch Pro, Released on August 4, 2008, which does have a barely working G-sensor. . . your phone is a HTC-PPC6700 from 2005 and not the same phone at all. Come off trying to pull the wool over Freepers' eyes. That's not the first time you've tried that ploy.

And regardless of your claim that you got data speed that was “quite good” we actually tested it and it was quite bad in our area... typically less than a 56k modem, while the PPC-6700 in the same locations could peak out at up to around 2Mbps but more typically did around 600Kbps to 1.2Mbps.

Absolutely AMAZING. . . you exceeded the documented standard speed of 3G. Frankly, Fireman, I don't for one second believe you ever tested the iPhone's transfer speeds or your PPC6700s transfer speeds. The 3G Transfer speeds, especially on the PPC6700 are rated at up 967Mbs, no where near your 1.2Mbs. . .

"EVDO is live in the San Francisco Bay Area and the phone got up to 849 kbit/s in 4 bar reception areas, 524 kbit/s in 2 bar areas and 300 kbit/s in barely 1 bar areas."— Source http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Sprint-PPC-6700.htm"Mobile Tech Review of the Sprint PPC-6700—Reviewed Oct. 7, 2005 by Lisa Gade, Editor in Chief

That review is pretty typical of reviews of your phone. Not a single one ever reported hitting anything close to the theoretical maximum for the phone of 967Mbs for EVDO, much less your claimed 1.2Mbs.

I READ you stupid advertising flyer, which merely states

"• Application friendly
Load TeleNav GPS navigation and other programs directly on your 6700

I also read the HTC factory specification sheets on your TOY phone. . . and I will believe the manufacturer's specification sheets and also the people who were working on modding your phone who stated categorically that it uses cellular and WIFI signals from Verizon WIFI hotspots because it uses "e911 GPS" and they had "no chance of unlocking what is just NOT THERE" and that "even if there were a silicon GPS chip in the phone it would be worthless because the PPC-6700 did not have any GPS antennas", over your advertising hack's puffery pushing the fact that you can install a piece of software that when you EXAMINE the software's nature you find that it uses only external BlueTooth GPS receivers if you want anything close to usable accuracy. You can keep dancing all you want, but the fact is, Fireman15, that your phone has only e911 GPS which is fake a GPS using software to estimate a location from triangulation of your position from calculating distances by signal delay from Cellular towers and locations of any Verizon WIFI hotspots that may be in the vicinity. THAT by definition is what e911 GPS is! It is nothing more than that. It's sole purpose is to attempt to estimate a cell phone's location for the assistance of a cellular 911 emergency call so that police can attempt to find you! As I said, keep dancing. It is amusing.

That being said, Verizon's implementation of the e911 standard is far better than what e911 location requires, which is that the phone be capable of reporting its location to within 300 meters. Verizon's system which Sprint uses, is accurate within plus or minus ~110 meters. The reason is that Verizon adds the use of WIFI hotspots to the cellular tower triangulations. So sorry you are wrong. . . but you are.

Well congratulations for being “technically skilled, not a fireman, and know far better than do you what I am talking about.” I was actually a leader of the hazmat team and am fairly technically proficient myself, having worked in the computer lab in College and sometimes filling in for professors when they weren't able to make it to a class. When any of the Chiefs or my co-workers needed assistance with a non-network related computer question they often called me instead of someone in the IT department. I was often tasked with projects that generally would not fit with my normal job description.

I have owned a technical business working with computers for over 36 years, fireman. . . and that is far more skilled than your little CV. . . my computer training went back to college course in the late sixties to early 70s and includes programing, diagnoses of computer software and hardware issues, transistor design, IC design, and far more, and also includes networking. I DO know far more than do you, I've probably forgotten more technical knowledge than you know and history of these devices as well. . . and the questioning you have been making on my expertise and knowledge in this thread is basically TWADDLE, I was supporting people with phones like yours back when they were new. . .What you claim is your knowledge of much of this, especially on Apple, based on myth and misrepresentation and lies. YOU prefer to believe the lies and myths. I have sources on everything I post. . . I do not make things up, nor do I lie. . . and I am intimately knowledgeable about what I post. Do I make mistakes? Of course. Everyone does. . . but I double and triple check my sources, just as I have done on your PPC-6700 and your other examples you have been desperately posting on this thread trying to prove the unprovable, going back to primary sources if necessary. I can also recognize fakery when I see it because I am completely familiar with the state of the art as it was through the years.

Your examples of what you call "ignorance" have been shot down, multiple times with links to the actual factual data show that rather than me being ignorant, it is YOU. A good example is your repeated claim that your own phone has a functional GPS inside it. Only you seem to think it does based on advertising HYPE. . . when all technical data, reviews, and even your own modding community says it does not, having instead the ability to do software e911 GPS, a function which can be simulated in any sufficiently fast phone.

Technology[edit]

A second phase of Enhanced 911 service is to allow a wireless or mobile telephone to be located.

To locate a mobile telephone geographically, there are two general approaches. One is to use some form of radiolocation from the cellular network; the other is to use a Global Positioning System receiver built into the phone itself. Both approaches are described by the Radio resource location services protocol (LCS protocol).

Radiolocation in cellular telephony uses base stations. Most often, this is done through triangulation between radio towers. The location of the caller or handset can be determined several ways:

Angle of arrival (AOA) requires at least two towers, locating the caller at the point where the lines along the angles from each tower intersect.

Time difference of arrival (TDOA) works like GPS using multilateration, except that it is the networks that determine the time difference and therefore distance from each tower (as with seismometers).

Location signature uses "fingerprinting" to store and recall patterns (such as multipath) which mobile phone signals are known to exhibit at different locations in each cell.

The first two depend on a line of sight, which can be difficult or impossible in mountainous terrain or around skyscrapers. Location signatures actually work better in these conditions however. TDMA and GSM networks such as T-Mobile 2G use TDOA.[8] AT&T Mobility initially advocated TDOA, but changed to embedded GPS in 2006 for every GSM or UMTS voice-capable device due to improved accuracy.

Code division multiple access (CDMA) networks tend to use handset-based radiolocation technologies, which are technically more similar to radionavigation. GPS is one of those technologies. Alltel, Verizon Wireless, T-Mobile 3G, and Sprint PCS use Assisted GPS.[8]

This information confirms what I described to you how your phones e911 system works. . . It is NOT a Geopositioning Satellite System. . . If anything it's a Geopositioning TOWER System.

I respect your work as a fireman and a hazmat specialist. . . and you couldn't get me to do that. You'd have to rescue my ass if I tried it. But fireman15, you are the dilettante in MY field here. . . the hobbyist trying to tell the expert how to do his job. . . and you are working from a defective data set. I would be just as much at sea trying to tell you how to clean up a hazardous waste mess.

Most of the stuff I have been telling you I have at the tip of my fingers. . . but I have double checked everything I have posted. . . and provided links. You tell me something like your phone has GPS and a motion sensor, and then provide false proofs, expect to be handed your head. . . because it is false to fact and I know that it is.

[fireman15]

Oh good grief! When PPC-6700 and G-sensor is entered in a search engine approximately 35,000 results come back. I looked at the first one and it looked familiar because we also had Touch Pro II which had the same display for the G-sensor. So I do apologize for my confusion on that.

The internet speeds on the PPC-6700 are quite impressive however and using speed testing sites when the laptop was tethered to the phone. I was extremely impressed from the beginning. It was typical to get 1Mbps speeds with higher peaks. I am not sure where your conflicting information is coming from on that.

[Swordmaker]

Here is a link to the specs for the Qualcomm MSM6500 which I know you will not bother reading:

I've read it. Do you even have a clue what a A-GPS is? It stands for Assisted GPS. It means it is designed to work by calculating location based on distances and angles from cellular TOWERS. That processor has routines built into it for solely that purpose. It is NOT a standard GPS system at all. . . And again, it has no GPS antennas or supporting chipsets.

SHEESH!

gpsOne is the brand name for a cellphone chipset manufactured by Qualcomm that allows cell phones to more accurately plot a user's position, using a technology referred to as A-GPS or Assisted-GPS. For differences between GPS and A-GPS methods, please see their respective articles. . .

gpsOne is primarily used today for Enhanced-911 E911 service, allowing a cell phone to relay its location to emergency dispatchers, thus overcoming one of the traditional shortcomings of cellular phone technology.

From the article on A-GPS, which is all your phone has because it has no Satellite antennas:

"A-GPS" features are mostly dependent on an internet network and/or connection to an ISP (or CNP, in the case of CP/mobile-phone device linked to a Cellular Network Provider data service). A mobile (CellPhone/SmartPhone) device featured with "A-GPS" (no additional "S-GPS"/Standalone-GPS feature to be selected as alternative, or there is no "Hybrid GPS" as a complete A-GPS/S-GPS hybrid features in one device) can work only when there is an internet link/connection to an ISP/CNP - it is useless in areas with no coverage of internet link (or no BTS towers nearby, in the case on CNP service coverage area) to connect to those A-GPS servers (that are usually provided by CNPs). On the contrary, an "S-GPS" (including "Dedicated GPS") device/feature requires no connection to internet/network to obtain GPS data since it connects directly to GPS satellites swarming overhead. — Wikipedia articles on gpsONE and A-GPS

This is the modern definition of the system. . . but your phone does not have satellite antenna. . . That is why the PPC-6700 requires an external Bluetooth GPS to work . . . Sorry. Those are the facts. Show me a working PPC-6700 that doesn't. . . or an article that has successfully found a GPS satellite antenna hidden somewhere inside the PPC-6700. YOU CANNOT. It ain't there. . . or are all the modders of your phone lying????

Here's another proof about the GPS on your phone from an authoritative source:

And this:

MS Assisted — Your handset is connected to the network, uses GPS signals + a location signal then relays its 'fix' to the server, which then uses the signal strength from your phone to the network towers to further plot your position. You can still maintain voice communication in this scenario, but not 'Internet/Network service' ie Web Browser, IM, streaming TV etc.. (This is the type of GPS your PPC-6700 is capable of doing — Swordmaker)

The role of the mobile carriers

Now for the other shoe to drop: the carriers. Every modern cell phone has an aGPS chip on it because of the enhanced 911 requirement, which is also why you don't have many phones with a separate SiRFIII chip on board: it is redundant and expensive.

But on Sprint, Verizon and some other carriers like AT&T they have devices with aGPS on board that is not accessible to the end-user for any purpose except for e911 (like the ppc-6700 or the Treo 700wx). Now why this is the case is a matter of debate and a lot of speculation, which ranges from the carriers have purposefully disabled this feature to the APIs were not ready (API= Application Programming Interface) or maybe even a combination. Some have also suggested that these devices need an internal antenna plexed to the chip in order to gain a satellite signal, although since cheap flip phones on Sprint can do aGPS, this remains controversial. Regardless, the fact that simple flip phones could do aGPS for mapping and $500 WM phones cannot, rubbed many in the mobile community the wrong way. — Source Extracted from "GPS vs. aGPS: A Quick Tutorial", By Daniel Rubino, Saturday, Jan 3, 2009

Then there's this:

Hi All,

I have the same concerns, I have a Sprint PPC-6700 and a Verizon XV6700, and I can't seem to get the GPS to work via C# when using interop. In order to get the GPS applet to appear in the control panel (like it does when using the emulator) a registry hack is required. Download and install a reg editor like PHM Regedit, and change the HKLM\ControlPanel\GPS Settings\Hide value to 0. (by default it's 1 on these devices), I have noticed that by changing the settings in this applet, it appears to set the values for the GPS Intermediate Driver settings, as per the documentation on MSDN. (It may also do other things, I have only looked here)

My biggest concern is that this device simply does not expose the GPS except for carrier branded functionality. Whenever looking at the specs for this device, the GPS is usually mentioned as afterthought (or not at all), and usually disclaimed by saying something like "GPS for E911" services.

Also to strengthen this hypothesis, I haven't been able to get any GPS mapping software to read the GPS data either.

Can anybody confirm that this device can/cannot actually do what it sounds like it might be able to?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

8 martie 2006

Then from the same technical help site:

The current use for E911 GPS is Triangulation of cell sites. In order to ACCURATLEY track movement, you need a GPS tranceiver. This connects via bluetooth. Please search "blue logger" or "bluetooth GPS" for this. LBS services are only available in certain markets and with limited carriers. ALL new production handsets are E911 GPS - Mandated by the US Government...but very few can actually provide turn by turn applications.

More:

After watching the post progress I contacted UTStarcom who are the OEM designer/distributor of the product asking......

"I have a Telecom New Zealand HTC Apache, can you confirm if this unit has a built in gps chip and can it be accessed for use with software, I understand the ppc-6700 offered in the USA did originally have a GPS Chip."

The reply I received was.....

"The only GPS chip it has is E911. It can't be re-programmed to be used for other 3rd party software."

Note: UTStarcomm are not the manufacturer.

So now we know what it is we just need someone who can utilise the chip, I have had very little luck finding any software.

Cheers

And FINALLY, nailing your coffin shut on this dead issue:

U are all searching desperately for how to make the "presumed built in GPS" to work. As a geospatial engineer, I can say that the built -in device that is inside the ppc6700 or the sanyo phones, is nothing but a chip that can interpolate position using a surveying method called Trilateration and not triangulation like people said. this method aims calculating an unknown position(X?,Y?) knowing the position (Xi,Yi) of the nearest sprint Antennas (at least three). That's why sprint say the E911 is disponible in only some areas because it must be at least three and at a distance less than 6 miles, the more the antennas available the best the accuracy. So, if Sprint intend to introduce a new LBS feature in its services, these gonna be based on that.

For those who sees A GPS icon in the settings tab after using that registry tweak, that has nothing to do with the built in GPS but just for showing the ability of the system to be hooked to a GPS device. we face the same kind of illusion on other systems such WinXp and linux.

Another thing from the primitive to the most advanced GPS receiver, there is always an antenna where is it on the PPC6700?

in addition I try to test it in DGPS using Esri ArcPAD and Leica trimble and it hasn't detect any connection any signal neither P code nor S.

Last Advice, Don't waste ur time, unless u are searching how to hack the trilateration and the communication mode for that chipset than the rest is easier.

With that, I consider the matter closed.

[fireman15]

As I told you previously I used the paid Sprint service before purchasing a Bluetooth receiver and it worked fine for turn by turn navigation.

There are many posts on the forums that confirm that the PPC-6700 has GPS.

Part of what you say about the enhanced 911 system, but part is not... There were 2 ways E911 location (Phase II) was implemented. There were phones GPS chips in the handset as in the PPC6700 and also phones that used Triangulation with cell towers which were less precise, and more expensive for the carrier. The mistake that you are making is combining the two groups together and claiming both have the same specs and accuracy and which is not the case. In addition the PPC-6700 does have an internal GPS antenna.

As I said they are many contradictory posts on this and if you choose to keep believing what you are convinced of I probably have no hope of changing your opinion. The primary reason that I know which is true is because before I bought a Bluetooth unit so I could use Google Maps etc. I used the Sprint Nav paid feature. It was turn by turn and it worked with much greater accuracy than would have been possible as you have described. I would love to provide you with a Sprint Bill to prove it, but I don’t have time to dig through ten year old records.

If you need me to I will try and provide you with dozens of other posts similar to the following:

20th June 2008, 02:22 PM |#15
Senior Member
Thanks Meter: 125There was a long thread about this over on pdaphonehome a while back. In short:
YES, the PPC-6700 DOES have stand alone GPS functionality. There was an email from HTC posted where they confirmed this. The reason it does not work stand alone is because Sprint requested it be disabled (I guess they wanted to charge for their own navigation package). But there is built in GPS that can use cell tower triangulation and regular GPS. Some people actually had the Verizon version working in a roundabout way for a while.

[Swordmaker]

Again just another of your false claims made about a device you have no first hand knowledge of. Do you think that maybe someone who has had one for many years might remember calibrating the “G-sensor” on more than one occasion? Which famous military commander said that It is what you think that you know that just isn't so that is the most dangerous? If you had actually done even the most cursory search using Google you would have found that there were many questions about how to calibrate the sensors... but you would rather call me a liar wouldn't you?

Are you saying the reviewers all had it wrong???? They all stated the screen switched to landscape mode when the keyboard was pulled out. . . Not one mentioned it automatically switched to landscape mode when turned to that position. Perhaps it was an oversight on their part?

You say you have to "calibrate" the G-sensor. . . but no one even mentions such a thing on line. The iPhone requires no such calibration. The compass occasionally does require one to wiggle it in a figure eight pattern for a few seconds to find true magnetic north, but not for positioning of any gravity orientation. Down is always down. I asked you about MOTION sensors. Not a G-sensor. . . but you did not bother to explain. LOL!

All this calibration and junk, just reminds me of all the things you don't have to do with any iPhone or Apple products.

Well, I did a search of PPC-6700 and G-sensor and what do you know. . . lots of hits on how to TURN auto rotation ON. . . looks as if it's a registry hack. No wonder the reviews didn't mention it. It was not turned on by default in the shipped version. Great. . . and it also had to be turned on for specific apps. Also great. It also looks as if the software to calibrate your vaulted G-sensor is not included. more greatness. Whoopee.