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Question for FR's Guitar Players
My brain... | 23 JAN 2015 | rdb3

Posted on 01/23/2015 7:09:15 PM PST by rdb3

I was listening to Carlos Santana's "Europa (Earth's Cry, Heaven's Smile)" and it made me wonder how in the world did he do those two looooong sustains or bends in this piece? Was this an amp trick or something that can be done only in the studio?

I mean, 4 second sustains are amazing. How did he do it?

Jesus Christ: You can’t impeach Him and He ain’t gonna resign.





TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: guitar; santana
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To: relictele
There there is the Dumble Overdrive, a Holy Grail-type of amplifier made by hand by its eponymous inventor and only when he feels like it. No two alike etc. Tens of thousands of dollars.

And a 10+ year waiting list to get one built. And if you piss off Alexander Dumble by asking him if he's started building your amp yet, he'll send you back to the bottom of the list.

Anyways, it couldn't have been a Dumble on this 1976 track. Santana didn't get his until after he saw Stevie Ray Vaughan playing through one.

21 posted on 01/23/2015 7:45:23 PM PST by Drew68
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To: dayglored
Just the right amount of audio feedback from the amplifier back to the guitar. If you do it right, it doesn’t squeal or shriek, it just keeps your note going, as long as you want.

And volume. I have a Marshall Plexi half stack and every now and then I'll get a wild hair up my ass and dime it out. It shakes the walls. Standing in the right place though, I can hold a note forever.

22 posted on 01/23/2015 7:46:57 PM PST by Drew68
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To: rdb3

Technique 1:

Turn it up loud enough so the energy from the speakers keeps the string exited. This sustain will last forever (as long as the amp is on).

You have to have pickups that won’t squeal by themselves from the feedback.

Compression helps control it, but you still need the above feedback effect to sustain the note forever.

You can move about and find harmonics of the fundamental frequency. Pretty cool (see Steve Vai).

Technique 2:

Simple compression. This boosts the volume of the signal as the string loses energy. Won’t last forever but you can get much longer notes. It helps to have a stiff guitar so the string loses energy at a slower rate.

Technique 3:

Drive a synth with the guitar. This is more common these days as synthesizer technologies blend with traditional effects. In this case the synth is actually making the sound, triggered by the string. A synth note can have infinite decay.

Technique 4:

Use something else to keep the string exited (put energy into the string), like an e-bow, or even an old fashioned violin bow.

I think that exhausts it...


23 posted on 01/23/2015 7:47:35 PM PST by MV=PY (The Magic Question: Who's paying for it?)
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To: Drew68

Right...almost certainly a Boogie.


24 posted on 01/23/2015 7:48:27 PM PST by relictele (Principiis obsta & Finem respice - Resist The Beginnings & Consider The Ends)
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To: right way right
Paul Reed Smith wasn't yet in business, back then. Santana played a Yamaha SBG-2000, or something like it.
25 posted on 01/23/2015 7:51:18 PM PST by DonGrafico (Enabling America's permanent underclass since 1975)
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To: rdb3

Harmonic feedback. It’s a beautiful thing. Unfortunately Carlos is one who can not just play. He will insert his lefty opinions at some point in the show, guaranteed.


26 posted on 01/23/2015 7:53:36 PM PST by bk1000 (A clear conscience is a sure sign of a poor memory)
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To: P-Marlowe

Controlled feedback insanity By Hendrix

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&redir_esc=&client=ms-android-verizon&source=android-search-app&v=133247963&qsubts=1422071519946&action=devloc&q=jimi+hendrix+machine+gun&v=133247963


27 posted on 01/23/2015 8:01:13 PM PST by right way right
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To: rdb3

Some delay and some compression, I’d imagine..


28 posted on 01/23/2015 8:02:13 PM PST by cardinal4 (Certified Islamophobe..)
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To: DonGrafico

Your right.
A friend had one of those and I liked it.
Les Paul like.


29 posted on 01/23/2015 8:03:28 PM PST by right way right
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To: Right Brother
"Hi gain amplification. Tube saturation.'

==============================================

This. Even better with a hollowbody.

30 posted on 01/23/2015 8:16:53 PM PST by Manic_Episode (GOP = The Whig Party)
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To: Drew68
> And volume. I have a Marshall Plexi half stack and every now and then I'll get a wild hair up my ass and dime it out. It shakes the walls. Standing in the right place though, I can hold a note forever.

Yep, infinite sustain... My old Twin Reverb will make my Les Paul sing like that when I crank it, though I'll be the first to admit its 2x12 cab doesn't have the wall-shaking balls of a Marshall stack. Long ago I played for a while through a Marshall 100-watt head with a pair of 4x12s, and there simply is nothing in the world quite like that experience. Except maybe having a stage backline with 3 such stacks. I saw Blue Cheer at the old Electric Factory in Philly around 1968 -- that was the first time I experienced the power of multiple stacks. It was kinda like seeing God, you're never the same again.

31 posted on 01/23/2015 8:24:25 PM PST by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is...sounding pretty good about now.)
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To: Bullish

Stevie Ray Vaughn.


32 posted on 01/23/2015 8:33:45 PM PST by kvanbrunt2 (civil law: commanding what is right and prohibiting what is wrong Blackstone Commentaries I p44)
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To: rdb3

I don’t know the tune, but “active electronics” comes to mind. If that even existed back then.


33 posted on 01/23/2015 8:38:02 PM PST by 9thLife ("Life is a military endeavor..." -- Pope Francis)
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To: rdb3
Feedback. Did somebody say feeeedbacccck ?. Feedback to the power of ludicriousosity and then some !

http://youtu.be/dYtzNl48F60

Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music.

Not for the faint of hearing.

Actually, every once in a decade or so I'll give it a listen. Also sounds better slowed down by around 75%

34 posted on 01/23/2015 8:38:43 PM PST by ADemocratNoMore (Jeepers, Freepers, where'd 'ya get those sleepers?. Pj people, exposing old media's lies.)
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To: dayglored

I wanted a Twin Reverb and went shopping for one. I found a Super Twin that was in decent shape (electronically great but with the customary cosmetic wear n tear).

I started using it and was almost immediately disappointed - it was too loud! I had gone from a 65 watt single twelve Ampeg and a 60 watt single twelve Dean Markley and was used to achieving a certain amount of output concurrent with the saturation of tubes which gives that golden tone. What I wound was that most of the halls where I played couldn’t handle the Super at full volume. And anything less robbed me of the tone I sought.

Most of the Twins and Super Twins ran at 65 to 85 watts. There was a number of years where the Twin spec’d at 100 watts. I did some research and found that my monster was running at 135 watts. No wonder!

I never sold it but I did replace it. I wonder what the durn thing is worth now?


35 posted on 01/23/2015 9:33:53 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: rdb3; Jack Hydrazine; Norm Lenhart; Salamander; TheOldLady; spyone; To Hell With Poverty; ...

This is the Modern Music Ping List. Our topic is music from the 20th and 21st century, from Ravel and Shostakovich through to the Synth Pioneers and beyond.

Topic suggestions are always welcome, and pings to music-related threads are appreciated.

FReepmail or reply to this post to be added to or removed from this list.

36 posted on 01/23/2015 9:34:34 PM PST by Squawk 8888 (Will steal your comments & post them on Twitter)
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To: rdb3

4 seconds seems relatively short in the realm of electric guitars. Even an acoustic guitar can do that without amplification.


37 posted on 01/23/2015 9:35:29 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew (Even the compassion of the wicked is cruel.)
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To: rdb3

38 posted on 01/23/2015 9:37:42 PM PST by RandallFlagg (Vote fraud solution: Stake, Rope, Sugar and Bullet Ants.)
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To: rdb3

He might have had amps that go to 11, which opens up all kinds of possibilities.


39 posted on 01/23/2015 9:39:56 PM PST by Disambiguator (Je suis ein Berliner.)
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To: Right Brother

“Hi gain amplification. Tube saturation. It’s magical.”

Just like a certain dude with a a Gibson Birdland used to do
but with a little feedback thrown in.


40 posted on 01/23/2015 9:55:56 PM PST by Slambat
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