Posted on 10/28/2014 5:03:57 PM PDT by CorporateStepsister
A father of eight has sparked controversy by refusing to save money for his children’s college education.
Guerilla Parenting author David T. Fagan told the Washington Post that college is 'a lot of wasted time' and if his children want to attend, they will have to pay for it themselves.
The 37-year-old marketing entrepreneur, whose family lives in Orange County, California, added to MailOnline: 'The focus is too much on a piece of paper and not enough on self-reliance.'
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
“Met too many then and since that wasted their parents hard earned money when they didn’t have to pony up anything.”
Exactly; then the fools got worthless degrees and moved back in with their bankrupted parents.
My parents didn’t pay for me or any of my siblings to go to college. They got us through elementary and high school, the rest is on us.
At 18 you’re an adult. There’s absolutely no reason parents should pay for kids’ college. If they want to, great. But I have no plans to pay for my kids’ college, the same way they’ll be buying their own cars. You don’t understand the value or the cost-benefit when everything is just given to you.
My husband and I put everything into our kids for 18+ years. We did what we could to give them a good start.
But aren’t they supposed to be mature, self-reliant adults at that point?
Neither of our parents helped us out much at all. (If at all!) It made us better.
Yes. We’re helping my mom out. Because she busted her butt for me for 18 years and she’s my mom.
No. My ADULT children have no right to our money and support. And, by the way, if we pay for them now, we’re going to *need* to move in with them when we retire because we will be too poor to survive without their help.
At some point, young men and women must walk on their own two feet.
Not to mention love and affection.
None of my twelve are likely to get degrees, become doctors or engineers or government employees, but I repeat myself.
But they will most likely worship God in church, work hard, write poetry, vote and hopefully have lots of children!
Those days are long gone. Two was what we could do. More were not in the cards.
You said you were defending someone that I was “bulying,” and I asked if the person you were defending was the one that said that any parent who doesn’t give their kid a college education deserves to be abandoned in their old age?
Really, you are taking this to another day.
Let’s agree to disagree, and we can meet up somewhere else and fight. I am tired of this discussion. You focus on imaginary comments and when challenged, you just keep asking the same question over and over.
You need to work on your game.
Never a straight answer.
“Lets hope his kids are idiots. Because if they want to be engineers or doctors, they are SOL.”
If anyone’s kids are smart enough to become an doctor or engineer they are smart enough to find a way to pay for college. I am an scientist/engineer (PhD, multiple disciplines), my brother is a medical doctor (MD) and a PhD. Neither of us had our parents pay a single dime for college. My wife and his wife are both Masters’ degreed. Neither of their parents paid a dime for college, either. We’re those “rich white people” Obama and his racist minions talk about, yet, the value of an education on all of our children will be learned and not handed to them.
If anyone pays attention to trust funds and free college, the vast majority of trust funds are ran dry within a few years and most college graduates have no education or a job worthy of the expense of college. I know some “rich white people” paying for their kid’s college, but it isn’t working out as well as they thought it would.
Colleges are full of 25 year olds claiming “I only have two classes left”, and have made that claims for several years. Two of my close friends have kids that made the “two classes left” claim, yet, both kids at 26, haven’t graduated and are at least one semester away from any degree. They have friends who make the same claim. The sad and ironic thing is that both of their kids live at home and the parents are corporate managers; managers that can’t seem to manage their own kid’s spending their money.
Assisting a child as they bump around finding their way through college is one thing, paying a free ride is another. Very few children have the maturity to handle it. Some do, the vast majority don’t.
Honest to God.
I said, and I quote, “This does not mean parents have to pay for college.”
I think the part you are misconstruing is that I said if parents do not make an effort to make their kids lives better, should not expect the same from their children.
If parents are selfish, and if they do not provide the basic fundamentals that are expected from a parent to a child (Food, clothing, shelter, encouragement, love,etc.) the child is not going to turn out well.
I said, what you reap, you sow.
Now please tell me where that says if a parent dosen’t pay for college they should be abandoned when they are sick and infirm.
You won’t be able to, because I never said it.
I did say that your children are pretty unfortunate to have you as a parent. I cannot imagine the poor example you have provided them—hoarding love, money, and their well being because you did not get it—why should they. You are a sad example of a man.
I hope the kids have made dad known that they will not support him if he is infirm or destitute in his old age. And don’t knock on the door with suitcase in hand.
8 posted on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 7:13:24 PM by morphing libertarian
You decided to pile onto me, and I thought you were the person I had responded to. I didn't realize that you were just ganging up on me. My apologies.
When my sister and I each were in high school, my dad told us that when the time came for college he and my mom would fund 100% of our Freshman year, 75% of our Sophmore Year, half our Junion year and a quarter of our Senior year. The rest was our responsibility. As a result I knew I had to work hard to either earn the money for the rest of my education or study hard and get financial aid. I wound up valuing my education more because it cost me and was not handed to me.
We don’t disagree. I have four out of four sucessf
We helped each to varying degrees
A lot of what you say is anecdotal. MOST kids attending college these days get done with minimal debt and within the normal range.
Sure, there are kids who take five or six years to graduate. There are kids that incur a ton of debt. There are parents that foot the bill.
That was really not the point of the discussion. At least my argument.
The point of the story was that the guy was “refusing” to save for his kids college. It wasn’t that he wasn’t “able” to save.
He has eight kids. This would not be a “story” if he simply said, “Hey, there are eight of you. I cannot afford to lay out any cash—we are living for this week!”
That happens every day.
His reason what that he felt college was not worth the cost or the effort. He suggested the paper was not worth the cost.
We could have a debate on the “theory” he presents. But unfortunately we know that many positions will not even look at you without a degree. So the kids are in a tough spot.
Furthermore, I proposed that a parents responsibility to their child is to provide them with a foundation that will let them succeed in life. This is not a “money” thing either. Parents should help their children take advantage of every opportunity to achieve their future.
This doesn’t mean paying for college, per se. It means helping them navigate the process to move from dependence to independence. If the ability to assist financially is there, so be it. If not, help the kid find the resources: Working, going to school part time, encouraging Community College or apprenticeship, ROTC, etc.
The tone of the man in the article is pretty much, “F You, kids. I am done helping.”
I read the tone to be selfish. Perhaps other see it as “tough love.”
You will notice that I have not interjected my personal experience to this point. Most every other post starts with “I paid for my college.” Since I already stated my opinion, let me give you some background.
I started working when I was twelve. I was expected to pay for my college. In the 1970’s I did four years in a private college. My parents foot the bill for about $500 a semester. They also helped me pay for books. I left college in debt about $7,200—probably the equivalent of $25,000 today.
I was the fourth of four kids. By the time my “turn” came around, they were out of gas—financially and emotionally. Both of my parents were middle level managers and made pretty good money for the day. By the time I came along for college they were more focused on building their dream house and retirement than they were in supporting my college plans.
I did not complain. I did not fight about it. It was just the way it was. I made it on my own. I graduated and made a great career. I was in that proverbial top 3% of income. I retired at 42 to start my own company. I sold it last year and I am retired again. Retired as in, I don’t have to work for several years. Once I hit 59.5, I can walk away when I want. Forever.
I take care of my mom now. And my mother in law, who has lived with my family since her husband died 23 years ago.
My children worked through their college experiences. One took an extra year to get a double major. She graduated about a month ago, and had a job within 3 weeks. She will be official off the dole when she gets her first paycheck next week. She did the first two years in community college. No debt. She paid for it.
The other works a job, works at the school, and works all summer. She also gets fantastic grades. Her scholarship, work study, and minimal loans (about $5 per year) means my out of pocket expense last semester at a Top Tier Private School was $812.
Pocket change.
As a first semester senior she already has three job offers. One for $45 an hour. This is with a Fine Arts degree.
So, I know what you all mean. I lived the world you and others are suggesting. Self-made is the term.
I will be honest, I resent the lack of support I got from my parents when I needed it. Not financial support, but the emotional support that the guy in the article demonstrates. I was completely on my own through the entire process. I had been accepted for college for two weeks before they noticed the letter on the countertop.
To suggest it was a “tough love” situation is an understatement. I was fed. I was housed. And, up until I was 12, I was clothed by them.
I am not whining. It was what it was. I came to terms with their lack of support years ago. It makes me angry to think about it, but I worked it out of my system years ago.
But, do I resent writing the check for my mother’s assisted living accommodations every month because their dream house turned into a nightmare? You bet I do. But I do it because the bible commands me to.
But, as my wife has said, no one but her (my wife) knows how much I hate it. Because its my job, as a child who can help, to help.
Ever since I became a Dad I knew it was my job to provide a role model for my children. I KNOW they have flourished because of the support and encouragement I’ve given them.
They are not, as one of these guys posted, “drunk rich kids” fumbling their way through college. They share the focus, discipline and determination I had as a child. When that is combined with true love, encouragement, problem solving, and yes, financial support they will be years ahead of their peers when they get out of college.
So, I don’t disagree that there are people who hand their kids everything. The live around me. My kids laugh at them because once they get into an independent environment they do not have the skills to survive.
In conclusion, I think the guy in the article is a selfish fool. Not because he won’t pay for his kids college—but because he is clearly not involved with what its going to take for each of his eight kids to be successful.
We all know the new parents who say “I won’t ever let me kids do that.” We also know that kind of mind set will not last two weeks in the real world. That is how I see these guys.
I read posts with a lot of “this is how I got through school, and if it was good enough for me, it will be good enough for them.....” But those posts are usually from people who don’t have kids, or whose kids are already gone and don’t call.
And finally, every other poster on here suggests the Military as a route to college. The military is not available to a lot of kids. The military is not a good fit for a lot of kids.
My oldest daughter looked into the military. She ACED the ASVAB, as I did, in high school. Aced it, as in no incorrect answers. The military options for college expenses were only marginally better than her scholarship options. The length of the obligations were prohibitive for the difference in money. She chose to take the scholarships.
In conclusion, I think many readers of this thread completely missed the point of the article.
The point, as I read it, was that this guy did not value a college education and therefore he wasn’t going to pay for it. It was not that he could not afford it. It was a principled stance. I think that stance is too limiting and it doesn’t consider the overall well being of his children.
I accept your apology.
It might behoove you to READ your posts, including the to and from before you pick a fight.
It would have saved us a lot of bandwidth.
Good day.
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