Who's ashamed of the Confederate Flag?

[3boysdad]

I'm just curious who is ashamed of the Stars and Bars. I was born and raised in the south and this flag always gave me comfort and identity. I slept with it over my bed during my youth. What about you? Today if you even mention it, it's like a fart in church. I say, where are the true southern men?!

[WMarshal]

Stars and Bars forever! I am a Yankee from the northern Rockies and I can aprreciate the the average southererner’s struggle. I do however think the planter class was a bunch of self-serving a$$holes.

[bimboeruption]

When Obama was elected, we took down Old Glory and replaced her with the First National flag of the Confederacy (Stars and Bars).

When he’s gone, Old Glory will be flying once again.

We live in north central Ohio, BTW.

[lacrew]

I grew up in Alabama, and the flag was just a natural part of everyday life. At some point I got a t-shirt with the seal of the city of Pelham on it. Fast forward ten years and I’m in a grocery store in Kansas....getting alot of strange looks. I had never noticed the the Pelham seal had the confederateflag in it.

[RegulatorCountry]

It apparently seems to be foreign to you, so no doubt you can’t understand, but feeling that slavery trumps the constitution does not give you the moral high ground. You’re in the same boat as the Confederacy, like it or not.

[RegulatorCountry]

Some were, some weren’t. It’s a conflict that goes back to the colonial era. Most of the soldiers fighting really had no use for planter society and owned no slaves. But, State was more akin to Nation in that era, and honor dictated that you answer when your people call. Doesn’t make sense to very many now, but that’s how it was.

[Leaning Right]

State was more akin to Nation in that era, and honor dictated that you answer when your people call. Doesn’t make sense to very many now, but that’s how it was.

You're right. Just as things would be if, hundreds years from now, there is a one-world government. Folks at that time would have trouble understanding why anyone would volunteer for a national army.

[Vermont Lt]

Ashamed of it? Why should I be?

In my family we’ve had many flags passed down. From a Queen Anne flag, to a confederate flag, to a Spanish flag, and the swastika and rising sun. We skipped the Korean flag but we have an Iranian flag.

Lots of flags from the losers to the US Army.

Not ashamed of any of them.

[clearcarbon]

"When Obama was elected, we took down Old Glory and replaced her with the First National flag of the Confederacy (Stars and Bars)."

Unfortunately there has been an accelerating trend during that time for Old Glory to represent slave states, those enslaved by government. Given the states rights aspect of the confederate flag it would be no surprise that it might come to represent free states, or government of, by and for the people.

[varina davis]

I disagree that the Confederacy was a “failed state.” there was never a recorded formal surrender of the Confederate States of America. And no symbols and flags would have endured this long unless they symbolized enduring beliefs.

My g-great grandfather was a CSA soldier, 54th Georgia, Co. K Army of Tennessee, along with many other ancestral relatives. None had slaves and worked the cotton fields and sugar cane themselves in southeast Georgia.

The issue for most southerners was states rights under the constitution and that is still an issue with many in Dixie. Deo Vindici

[cva66snipe]

The north despite the history books written for schools to make Lincoln look like a saint. He and the northern senators and congressmen was no more morally right about slavery than the south. Good Ole Honest Abe was a segregationist and his plan was to ship all blacks back home after the war. IOW expel them from the nation.

Northern labor markets weren't by any means much less than slavery either. Blacks got jobs white man would not do at pay a white man would not accept. Then there was a matter of the Union Army itself even all the way through WW2 actually. Shedding blood is shedding blood and war is war. If you have a man fighting for your cause would you not allow him among your ranks even though his skin is brown? BTW it was USCT who built the most remote and roughest portions of the Trans Alaska highway in WW2 and they had far less equipment, food, shelter, you name it.

USCT United States Colored Troops, their bodies lie in segregated graves in national cemeteries in both the north and the south. Actually Confederates are also buried there but the Confederate whie is among Union white vets. I know of what I say because I once worked at one.

Slavery wasn't the issue of The Civil War it was made the issue by politicians but the real war was plain and simple a trade war. A hand full of men in the nation wanted control of all trade including southern trade. They built their factories and fortunes on the backs of slaves themselves black and white alike then when it became a liability and a means to control upcoming southern industry they used slavery abolition as a tool.

Very honorable men on both sides died but slavery continued in this nation well into the early 1960's in some places. Who was the master? One of the largest was coal companies who built towns back in the boonies and owned all the land including the houses they rented to miners plus they owned the store. Currency was script or tokens redeemable at the company store. That was often also the pay. The income was never enough to satisfy the debt owed the store aka the company. Laws were as such the debt holder could hunt you down and have you jailed.

Apprenticeships also existed and involved white parents more or less turning a child over to a company to {cough cough} teach them a skill. It was a contracted obligation and escaping by running away was breech of it.

Slavery would have likely ended sooner in all regions of the nation and without blood shed had it been allowed to exist even twenty - thirty more years. Technology would have resolved it just as technology ended the mining stores hold. The mining issue was in both north and south of the Mason/Dixon line and even small wars were fought over it years afterward up to the early 1900's.

The history books portrayed slave owners as all of them beat slaves etc. Actually many did not it would be counterproductive. Injured slaves can't work. Beating a horse or mules results in mayhem as well. But a few who did do as such became the history because it served the purpose of justifying the war in history books. Many slaves in the south returned the the farms, factories, & plantations, they worked at as slaves before the war. No Jobs for anyone.

Slavery carries a huge moral responsibility to the owner Biblically really more so than the slave.

The Generals who fought the war mended friendships afterward. Many were academy grads. Constitution and Founders Intent wise I think CSA was far closer to what was first envisioned by the founding fathers than what followed in the US Government afterward.

I've seen 48 of the 50 states & I've seen about eight different nations. The south is home.

[cva66snipe]

One of my wife’s GGG uncles was what was called a Mountain Rebel. He was Major General John P McCown who was at the Battle of Murfreesboro. He and Bragg got into a difference of opinion LOL. My GGG grandfather was a Union Major. Another GGG grandfather was in it on the Union side and lost a leg. In the area I live in loyalties were mixed.

[RebelTex]

"How can one be proud of and find "comfort" and "identity" in the flag of a "Failed State," of a nation which existed for only four years, during a time of constant warfare, and which was then dissolved?"

The same way Texans can be proud of a flag with a hand drawn cannon and the moto "Come and Take It". Molon Labe, "come and take it", is a classical expression of defiance in the face of overwhelming odds, reportedly spoken by Sparta's King Leonidas I in response to the Persian army's demand that the Greeks surrender their weapons at the Battle of Thermopylae. After fighting valiantly for 3 days, the greatly outnumbered Greeks ultimately lost.

"Remember the Alamo" is another classical expression of defiance and was the Battle Cry that Texians shouted as they attacked and defeated Santa Anna at the Battle of San Jacinto. Now, Texans are proud of that Battle Cry, but Mexicans view it as an insult.

The Stars and Bars, the Confederate Battle Flag, and various other Confederate flags all symbolized "States Rights" and a Federalist rather than Centralized government. Slavery was not a Casus Belli of the War of Northern Agression. Economics was the Casus Belli of the War - the South was rich (agriculture) and gaining power while the North was losing influence and money. In 1863, after almost 3 years of fighting, Lincoln introduced the slavery issue as a much needed recruitment and fund raising tool to shift the tide of the war back to the North (and which worked only too well).

So it is easy for us Southerners (and yes that includes Texas) to be proud of our heritage and Confederate flags. After all, most all Southerners and even FReepers want limited Federal government and increased States Rights and Individual Liberty - the same goals for which the Confederacy was formed.

FReegards,

RebelTex

[re_nortex]

Given the states rights aspect of the confederate flag it would be no surprise that it might come to represent free states, or government of, by and for the people.

In reality, the Confederacy ended up with the victory. Dixie is the land of a strong economy and the Yankee states are increasing the minimum wage and dealing with confiscatory corporate taxes.

Indeed, things have done a 180 as this map makes abundantly clear. The "Solid South" is the land of true freedom and liberty, rejecting the slavery of Big Labor. Those states that once ostensibly fought against human bondage now are shackled by the evils of unionism.

[SandwicheGuy]

But don't get me wrong. Things like those multi-language signs in stores are much worse than flying the Confederate flag.

Don't you find it tiresome to straddle the yellow line?

Seriously, you are for it, or you aren't. If you aren't for it, then you are against it. If you are against it, the just be quiet. Seriously.

[SandwicheGuy]

I've seen 48 of the 50 states & I've seen about eight different nations. The south is home.

One can go days on FR with only mundane news stories and analysis. Then you get a comment like yours. Not really a comment, really, more like a mini-essay. In any event, you obviously have done your homework, and I am sure you had to boil the snot out of a lot you learned or was taught to hit the true note like you did. I am so glad you posted this.

[SandwicheGuy]

Indeed, things have done a 180 as this map makes abundantly clear. The "Solid South" is the land of true freedom and liberty, rejecting the slavery of Big Labor. Those states that once ostensibly fought against human bondage now are shackled by the evils of unionism.

I hate to post three times in a row, but you are spot on with your opinion and the map proves it.Thanks for posting it.

[Kirkwood]

Strong economy? LOL

[Kirkwood]

There’s a fellow down the road here who used to fly about 30 or 40 of them all around his property. Weather has taken some out, and the rest are faded, but it is still something to see.

[Oratam]

When I was a little kid in the late '70s, my family drove to Florida from New Jersey. At some point on the journey, we stopped at a store in Virginia where my parents loaded up on cartons of cigarettes while my brother and I inspected the myriad fireworks that filled the shelves of several aisles.

Knowing fireworks would be out-and-out rejected by my parents, I picked up a small Confederate battle flag from a display and brought it up to the cashier, a thin, animated woman who asked me, "Would you like me to wrap it . . . or do you want to wave it out your car window!" Knowing what she wanted to hear, I told her I planned to wave it out the window . . . which I did, at least until we got back on I-95.

I still have that 99-cent flag.

[equaviator]

I think it’s cool looking. Nice design and color combo. As for it’s varied symbolism, I don’t see it that way because to me, a lot of stuff like that is just graphic art. However, the Stars and Stripes of the USA is another story altogether but even more aesthetically pleasing and personally meaningful.