Posted on 12/22/2013 7:55:11 AM PST by Colofornian
It’s three days to Christmas, 2008. And the Mormon Church-owned Deseret News is at it yet once again:
”In 1844, there were approximately 26,000 members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yet, when W.W. Phelps penned a song of tribute to his beloved, fallen Prophet, he promised that ‘millions shall know Brother Joseph again’” [My note: The ‘song of tribute’ is an actual praise song directed TO Joseph Smith, ‘Praise to the Man’...for more on this, see Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity]]
The DesNews article continues:
"...Now known not only to the millions of members of the LDS Church, but also by countless more around the world, Joseph Smith has taken a unique and respected place in American and religious history...An advance copy of the CD was presented to President Thomas S. Monson...He reminisced about serving as a mission president in Toronto, ‘the only area outside his own, where Joseph Smith taught.’ He also noted that he's always appreciated the fact that Joseph Smith was born in the season in which we celebrate the birth of Christ...And at this season, he's happy that our thoughts can be drawn to Joseph Smith. ‘He gave us everything.’"
So the current Mormon "prophet" – three days before Christmas and one day before Joseph Smith's birthday – pronounces that Joseph Smith "gave us everything?"
What does that look like to the average non-Mormon?
Yup, that's right: Merry Smithmas!
In the previous two years, Lds "apologist" Daniel C. Peterson has tried – in vain – to develop a "we don't celebrate 'Smithmas'" apologetic.
This was his blog effort in 2012: Merry Smithmas!
And two years ago today--Dec. 22, 2011-- Peterson jumpstarted a forum at Mormondialogue.com jon the same subject: "Celebration of Smithmas." In this forum, Peterson eventually declares that "Oh, Smithmas is definitely an invention of our apostate critics..." Another poster, a writer with the Deseret News (Scott Lloyd), stated on Jan. 3, 2012 on this same forum thread that: "It is clear from discussion in this thread that the 'Smithmas' notion is a fantasy invented from whole cloth by antagonists for political purposes."
Yet the ironic aspect is that Peterson himself – on Dec. 22, 2011 -- acknowledged how he personally celebrates "Smithmas" in the original forum post on "Smithmas":
"In my house we actually do celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday on 23 December. We've done it roughly for ten years now, maybe fifteen. We'll do it tomorrow night. We invite friends over, have a potluck meal and a White Elephant party, maybe tell a story about Joseph Smith..."
Peterson didn't hold back in declaring the same thing on his Nov. 30, 2012 blog on the topic.
Well, at another Mormon forum – Mormondiscussions.com – Mormon poster "Aristotle Smith" couldn't but help note the extreme irony, quoting Peterson's blog twice [Note: "DCP" = Daniel C. Peterson]:
"...after denying vehemently that Mormons worship Joseph Smith and celebrate Smithmas, DCP then talks about what he and his family do every December 23rd: Quote: So far from the truth is it that my wife and I, ten or so years back, decided to host a small birthday party for Joseph Smith at our home every 23 December. We thought it sad that, amidst all the busyness and commercialism of Christmas, his signal contribution to our lives and faith usually went altogether unmentioned. We may have missed a year or two since then — though I’m not sure of that — and we’ll be out of state this year, but, for the most part, we’ve continued this newly-invented custom annually. Our birthday party typically involves a potluck dinner, something about Joseph Smith, and then . . . Christmas carols and Christmas hymns. (We include among those we’ve usually invited some good and exceptionally musical friends — e.g., a composer with a doctorate in musicology, a former professional opera singer, a music teacher and member of the Tabernacle Choir with a master’s degree in choral conducting, and several members of recorded choral groups — so it’s a real treat for us.) [Aristotle Smith then adds]: So the proof that Mormons don't celebrate Smithmas is...the fact that DCP is the biggest purveyor of Smithmas. My irony meter exploded when in the very next paragraph after the quoted paragraph above was this: Quote: If anybody out there can point to specific examples of “Smithmas” in his or her experience, I would appreciate hearing about them. [Aristotle Smith finishes his Dec. 2, 2012 post with]: "Um, yeah, try your own blog post."
In the 2011 discussion two years ago today, Mormon poster Cobalt -70 reacted to Peterson's announcement about his personal "Smithmas" parties:
"...I hope it doesn't catch on. If Smith were born some time other than two days before Christmas, then that would be great. But anything that celebrates both Joseph Smith with Jesus in the same context is not a good thing for Mormon PR."
In the same forum, Jan. 2, 2012, Mormon poster Sethbag noted: "...I think that IMHO an inordinate amount of attention is paid to Joseph Smith. He's been succeeded as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator what, fifteen times now? And yet Joseph Smith probably gets more airtime in LDS circles than all of his successors put together, probably by some large multiple. Whether Smithmas is real or not, the amount of attention paid to the founder of the religion sure is pretty freaking high." Sources of above two quotes: See: See second "hit" on this google search for who posted in Mormondialogue.org: "Celebration Of Smithmas" See: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56547-celebration-of-smithmas/
"Xmas" is an abbreviated version of "Christmas." What's LMOS? It's an acronym for Local Manifestations of Smithmas!
While most of "Smithmas" flows from Utah cities like Salt Lake City, Provo (BYU), and Logan (Lds' Religion Institute at Utah State), this chart below shows LMOS – Local Manifestations of Smithmas – do occur.
For example, what do the years 2012, 2007, 2001, 1990, 1979 – or even a year going all the way back to 1894 -- all have in common?
Answer: The so-called "Christmas" service in Mormondom fell upon Joseph Smith's Dec. 23 birthday!
You see, Mormonism doesn't offer "special" Christmas Eve or Christmas Day services to celebrate that incarnational event unless it happens to fall on a Sunday -- Sabbath day.
So, over the past 187 years of the existence of the Mormon Church, that Sabbath has an equal chance of falling on either Jesus' birthday -- or Joseph Smith's. And as to which Historic person gets more attention that year could depend upon whose birthday falls closest to that fourth Sunday in December!
Well, in 1894, Joseph Smith's nephew, Joseph F. Smith, also a "living prophet" of the Mormon church, advocated that Mormons should celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday: This, too, was recommended on a Sabbath -- Dec. 23, 1894 – a day which could be sourced as the festive "jumpstart" of "Smithmas!" [See MormonHeritage.com]
This very tension within Mormonism leads to some uncomfortable moments among Mormons come Dec. 23...Like the years 1979 and 2001.
Mormondialogue forum poster Rameumptom was reminiscing earlier this month about such a special "Smithmas" year, Dec. 23, 1979:
"I recall the one Christmas Sacrament meeting during my mission (1979), when a member of the stake presidency spoke and said he wasn't going to talk about Jesus, who he said was not born in December, but in April. So he talked about Joseph Smith. He [mis]quoted D&C 135 by saying "Joseph Smith has done more for the benefit of man than any other man in history". Our Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher, who was a school principal, had about a dozen teachers from his school he invited so they could see Mormons believe in Christ..."(p. 4) (MormonDialogue.org)
And when Smith's birthday rose up again on Sabbath Day, 2001, Mormon poster "Backpew" at NewOrderMormon.org relayed his/her experience earlier that day:
"I promised myself to not even look at this bb this weekend so I could find my own Christmas spirit. But, something happened at sac meeting that I just KNEW would happen, but was hoping WOULDN'T happen....It actually started out very lovely. The narrator was one of my favorite men in the ward -- very soft spoken. His script read, 'A good shepherd does not drive his sheep with dogs and horses....' 'the sheep hear the good shepherd's voice, and they know it, and they follow it...' I felt all tingly because that felt like a very good start to a good Christmas program. Though our choir isn't the best I've ever heard, I was determined to soak it all in. We have some talented violinists, and some talented pianists, and the narration was so nice, and a girl in our ward sang with such an angelic voice. But the whole time I was thinking to myself, 'I'll bet they can't get through this program without conking me on the head with the Restoration, Joseph Smith, GBH is our prophet on earth today,' yadda yadda yadda. And guess what? It happened at the end when the Bishop spoke. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH. I like our Bishop as a person, but... oh well. I guess I just don't belong. Merry Christmas to you all. May you find the peace that this time of year is supposed to bring." (NewOrderMormon.org: First time at church today in 10 months--Whew! [Lds posters comment on "SmithEmphasisMas" @ Lds Church on Dec. 23] Note: "GBH" = Gordon B. Hinckley
Indeed, many Mormons simply feel out of place in the Mormon Church.
| DATE | COMMENTARY | LINK/SOURCE | Additional Commentary | |
| 2013 | A Mormon thread overseer attempts to engage in Morpologetics, yet manages to stir up either wonderment that such a "Smithmas" recognition "out there" exists (at times, the discussion takes on a "Does Santa Claus exist?" flavor re: the existence of "Smithmas"). One Mormon poster recalls the 2005 BYU Joseph Smith nativity scene: "JKWilliams: As I recall, BYU had a sort of 'Joseph Smith Manger' scene set up that Christmas season, which to me was a bit unseemly" On page one of this forum, one poster discusses Lds Morpologist Daniel Peterson's 2012 attempt to dismiss the "Smithmas" trend: "Dan makes the obvious point that among the Latter-day Saints, there is scarcely ever a mention of the birth of Joseph Smith at this time of year, let alone an observance of it that overshadows Christmas." | MormonDialogue.org: Smithmas... | This despite the fact that Daniel C. Peterson himself has blogged that his family has friends-over for Joseph Smith birthday parties for the past 10-15 years! | |
| 2012 (Nov. 30) | Poster Aristotle Smith: "I just realized that Christmas falls on a Tuesday this year, so December 23 is on a Sunday. This of course provides a great opportunity for the LDS church to prove its Christian roots by using that day to talk about Joseph Smith, it is his birthday after all. So, will the average LDS ward celebrate Smithmas or Christmas on December 23 this year? I'm guessing my wife's ward will split the difference and dedicate part to Joseph Smith and part to Jesus. Aristotle Smith's "irony meter" also exploded in commenting upon Lds apologist's comments from a then-recently released blog about "Smithmas" | MormonDiscussions.com: Will Smithmas return this year? | Beyond the excerpt above, ya gotta read some of the humor of this thread...click on the above link | |
| 2011 (Dec. 22) | Lds morpologist jumpstarts thread in which he concedes his family personally celebrates Joseph Smith's birthday on an annual basis. It has all the "pine tree" scent of "Smithmas" – though Peterson doesn't like that name. Peterson writes: "In my house we actually do celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday on 23 December. We've done it roughly for ten years now, maybe fifteen. We'll do it tomorrow night. We invite friends over, have a potluck meal and a White Elephant party, maybe tell a story about Joseph Smith..." | See second "hit" on this google search for who posted in Mormondialogue.org: "Celebration Of Smithmas" See: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56547-celebration-of-smithmas/ | See comments in above article | |
| 2010 (March 4) | Pam, head moderator: "Who, then, is the 'root of Jesse'? It appears that the Prophet Joseph Smith is both the 'rod' and the 'root' that will come from Jesse…" | 2 Nephi 21 | For more on this, see: D&c 325 Test #2 [Merry 'SMITHMAS!' BYU class says Joseph Smith is both 'Rod' and 'Root' of Jesse] | |
| 2009 (Dec. 24) | Mormon columnist Doug Gibson: "...every December around Christmastime, sacrament turns into a bummer, at least for me. Almost every year, Jesus Christ seems to be a bit player. I don’t know who is to blame. Maybe bishoprics are instructed to have “Christmas Sunday” appear as just another Sabbath in the ward house, with a couple of religious carols thrown in the mix as a nod to the holiday...Every year I convince myself we’re going to have a real Christmas Sunday with talks on the Lord’s birth and the congregation singing Christmas carols along with the ward choir, and, well… There are not-too-subtle conflicts...the prophet’s birthday is Dec. 23.Although Joseph Smith, for all his recognition, is not the same as Jesus Christ,there have been occasions where “Praise to the Man” is sung more often than “Away in the Manger” on Christmastime Sunday. But most of the time there’s just a maddeningly frustrating neutrality about Christmas, Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ. Take the most recent sacrament meeting. The opening song was “The First Vision,” and then the bishop reminded us that during this season we should remember the birth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. That seemed an appropriate nod to the man and I was encouraged that there were two Christmas carols and three talks left on the program. But the talks, which bookended a ward choir Christmas carol, were not about Christ’s birth, although they did capture His spirit. They were well-prepared, informative and spiritual talks that would have been appropriate for any sacrament meeting, but why can’t we have had talks about the birth of Christ? Is there some edict against it? ... Christ shouldn’t get the bump like a diet book author waiting his turn on a Letterman show that runs too long. | Doug Gibson, Utah Mormon columnist: The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting; see also: The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] | Mormons, isn't it time to have a "real Christmas Sunday?" Come worship in a church this season that truly honors the birth of the Lord Jesus. Christmas is for Jesus Christ. Honoring Him. Don't 'bump' him 'like a diet book author waiting his turn' on an over-extended Letterman show. | |
| 2008 (Dec. 1) | Blog: "The two hundredth anniversary of Joseph Smith’s birth is three years past, and the hand wringing of Smith-centric sacrament meetings in December (Christmas infringement!) is mostly abated. Still, it shouldn’t be a surprise that commemorating the birth and life of the Prophet of the Restoration is part of our liturgical calendar, ad hoc and informal though it may be." | Bycommonconsent.com: 'Joseph and Jesus' | Call it what you will: Smith-centricism; Christmas infringement; the eclipse of Christmas; or, just plain "Smithmas" | |
| 2007 (Dec. 21) | Don, BYU business management grad and former Lds missionary to Guatamala: "Regardless, the 'root of Jesse' is almost surely the Prophet Joseph Smith. He holds the keys of this kingdom in both time and eternity and is the president of the last and greatest of all dispensations, the dispensation of the fulness of times. (See D&C 27:12-13; 90:1-3;112:30-32; 128:18-21) He is the living ensign to which the present generation must gather. We cannot, in reality, come to Christ if we do not accept his servant, Joseph Smith. "The Lord's works are first spiritual and then temporal, or physical. (See D&C 29:31-32) All of the spiritual keys, powers, doctrines, and ordinances revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith must be honored and implemented before Zion, the second ensign, can be literally established in fullness and glory. (See D&C 64:41-43; 105:3-5) That day is not far off (Witness of Jesus Christ: The 1989 Sperry Symposium on the Old Testament, Richard D. Draper. See ch. 14 "The Two Davids"). So any hope I had of finding a definitive answer on who the rod and branch is or are, is lost in a sea of opinions. It could be Christ or Joseph Smith or a powerful Jewish leader named David." | Isaiah 11 & 12: The Rod, Stem of Jesse, the Branch and the Roots | "Oh come, Oh come, EmmanSMITHuel? See D&c 325 Test #2 [Merry 'SMITHMAS!' BYU class says Joseph Smith is both 'Rod' and 'Root' of Jesse] | |
| 2007 (Sept. 16) | This blog addresses some Mormons dismissals that they celebrate "Smithmas": "Of course, there are a few problems with that characterization, aren’t there? Chief among them — if Joseph Smith is really just like John the Baptist, then why don’t we treat the two similarly? And despite doctrinal protests, we really don’t. In the current hymnal, there are no hymns about Moses. None about John the Baptist (though Jesus’s baptism is referenced a few times). A few cursory mentions of Peter, in places like What Was Witnessed (#11), and implied mention in #105, Master the Tempest is Raging. There are some mentions of Adam — more than any other Biblical prophet, probably — as well as Enoch. In contrast, we get two very well-known, oft-sung hymns focusing directly on Joseph Smith: Praise to the Man, and Oh How Lovely was the Morning. Prior hymnals contained many more: The Seer; Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer; O Give me Back my Prophet; and so on...The same goes for church art. The average church building might have pictures of Joseph Smith alone; of the First Vision; of the priesthood restoration; of translation. The Gospel Art kit reflects this. It contains ten pictures of Joseph Smith. There are six pictures of Jesus’ apostles, four pictures of Moses, Lehi, and Nephi, and three each of Adam and Daniel..." | Timesandseasons.org: Praising the man; see also: Praising the man [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] | Iconic adoration of Joseph Smith – and a previous hymnal edition that had even more praise songs to Joseph Smith | |
| 2005 (Dec. 19) | A grassroots Mormon makes mention of Joseph Smith-centrism, 'Praise to the Man,' and the Joseph Smith Nativity creche at BYU that month | ByCommonConsent.com: "Dealing with Smithmas"; see also: "Dealing with “Smithmas” [Mormon worship of Joseph Smith] | See: Joseph Smith Nativity [A Virtual 'Merry Smithmas' 'Greeting Card' circa 2005] | |
| 2005 (Feb. 10) | These are original quotes from Mormon leaders that insert Joseph Smith in place of Jesus Christ as the way to heaven | MormonCurtain.com: Reasons Joseph Smith is More Important Than Jesus; see also: Reasons Joseph Smith Is More Important Than Jesus [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] | See How would YOU score on this 26-question quiz about 'Smithmas?' [Vanity, Part A] and Chart entitled: "Mormon leader proclamations where the 'confession' is about Joseph Smith – and usually mentions/implies Smith as the 'Way' -- the 'consent'[er] or passport" in Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity] | |
| Previous Sample Years: 2001 – a year in which the "Christmas" Sunday fell upon "Smithmas" – Joseph Smith's Dec. 23rd birthday | Poster "January" comments: "Thanks for the opportunity to vent. I went to church today, too, and yes, lots of very dull, ill-prepared music and minimal decoration. I went with a pretty bad attitude, but it is lame that one of the two most important holidays in all Christendom just is like any other Sunday at our church. It would help if our chapels at least looked like churches, the stained glass alone at other churches gets me in a worshipful mood. I am looking forward to going a Protestant Christmas eve ceremony tomorrow." Poster "backpew" then described his Dec. 23 experience: "I promised myself to not even look at this bb this weekend so I could find my own Christmas spirit. But, something happened at sac meeting that I just KNEW would happen, but was hoping WOULDN'T happen..... It actually started out very lovely. The narrator was one of my favorite men in the ward -- very soft spoken. His script read, "A good shepherd does not drive his sheep with dogs and horses...." "the sheep hear the good shepherd's voice, and they know it, and they follow it..." I felt all tingly because that felt like a very good start to a good Christmas program. Though our choir isn't the best I've ever heard, I was determined to soak it all in. We have some talented violinists, and some talented pianists, and the narration was so nice, and a girl in our ward sang with such an angelic voice. But the whole time I was thinking to myself, "I'll bet they can't get through this program without conking me on the head with the Restoration, Joseph Smith, GBH is our prophet on earth today," yadda yadda yadda. And guess what? It happened at the end when the Bishop spoke. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH. I like our Bishop as a person, but... oh well. I guess I just don't belong. Merry Christmas to you all. May you find the peace that this time of year is supposed to bring." |
NewOrderMormon.org: First time at church today in 10 months--Whew! [Lds posters comment on "SmithEmphasisMas" @ Lds Church on Dec. 23] | Years like 2001 and 1979 intensify the tension between Mormons who want to focus on Joseph Smith vs. those who want to focus on Jesus Christ. Because no Christmas Day or Christmas Eve services are held in the Mormon Church unless those calendar days fall on a Sunday, then that fourth Sunday de facto becomes "the Christmas service." Tension then builds when that fourth Sunday of the month balls on Joseph Smith's birthday—Dec. 23. | |
| Previous Sample Years: 1979 – a year in which the "Christmas" Sunday fell upon "Smithmas" – Joseph Smith's Dec. 23rd birthday | Rameumptom, 2013 about 1979: "I recall the one Christmas Sacrament meeting during my mission (1979), when a member of the stake presidency spoke and said he wasn't going to talk about Jesus, who he said was not born in December, but in April. So he talked about Joseph Smith. He [mis]quoted D&C 135 by saying "Joseph Smith has done more for the benefit of man than any other man in history". Our Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher, who was a school principal, had about a dozen teachers from his school he invited so they could see Mormons believe in Christ..."(p. 4) | MormonDialogue.org | Years like 2001 and 1979 intensify the tension between Mormons who want to focus on Joseph Smith vs. those who want to focus on Jesus Christ. Because no Christmas Day or Christmas Eve services are held in the Mormon Church unless those calendar days fall on a Sunday, then that fourth Sunday de facto becomes "the Christmas service." Tension then builds when that fourth Sunday of the month balls on Joseph Smith's birthday—Dec. 23. |
well when are you going to start posting witty things?
Sure, I can do Jesus as well, “Do for others what you want them to do for you: this is the meaning of the Law of Moses and of the teachings of the prophets.” You know, Golden Rule, Live and Let Live, Be as Kind and Respectful as YOU want to be treated. You referred to me as Satan just for daring to express a position consistent with the 1st Amendment. Classy.
Speaking with love softens hearts. Speak with anger or a heavy hand hardens hearts
_____________________________________
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
So when the LORD Jesus Christ made Himself a whip and went into the temple and overturned tables whipped the moneychangers and drove them bodily out of His “Father’s house”
was that soft fluffy loving or in anger ???
Is that what Jesus did every time?
cmon, the answer to that is easy
Well there was that one time he killed a few million people cause he was angry..
now you’re just being silly
How about the time he stoned that prostitute to death.
Then there’s that tax collector he condemned.
There ya go again hatin on the Mormons..
It was the Mormon jesus who killed all those people
the LORD Jesus Christ of the Christian Bible got angry and whipped and threw the money changers bodily out of the Temple in Jerusalem..
Why don’t you read the Bible for yourself ???
Jesus got angry..
He was not the mamby pamby weakling that the Mormons like to pretend He was..
Well except for that time their Mormon jesus murdered all those people here in the Americas...
but that’s not in the Christian Bible..
ya hafta read the book of Mormon for that story..
Well, indeed speaking with love softens hearts...but not ALL hearts. Otherwise, God, the Perfect Lover & Perfect Speaker would have already converted about everybody to Him. (Right?)
If you were to "lecture" or "scold" a parent of a teen whose going thru either substance abuse or out-of-control neglect of most/all boundaries in life, your "Ya know, honey, speaking with luuuuuuuvvvvvv is guaranteed to soften the heart of that hormonal-laced rebel, ya know" comes across as sweep & syrupy & not actually very helpful in that given situation.
Whether you want to concede it or not, parents of such teens need to engage in "tough love." Heavenly Father often had to take a "tough love" approach in dealing with awol Israel.
As far as "anger" goes...#1...many of those who frequent these threads aren't X-Mormon...and therefore don't have oft' assumed "bitterness" motives. (I don't) I have been treated rather well by all the Mormon family/relatives in my life. I love them; they love me. And we get along rather sweetly.
For you to assume anger is involved is judging the inner person, which Scripture warns vs. doing (see 1 Samuel 16:7, for example).
You: "Speak with...a heavy hand hardens hearts."
Yet another assumption on your part. If you had a friend reaching out to someone in bondage to alcohol, drugs, lust, or pick your poison, and for you to come along and counsel them by saying: "Speak with...a heavy hand locks people in bondage" would be ludicrous. They would look at you with a look on their face like, "Haven't you got a clue? This person I'm trying to reach is ALREADY locked in bondage!!!"
You see, you're making an assumption that the heart being targeted isn't hard already! (May I suggest you start going thru the book of Acts -- say Acts 17, 18, 19 -- to see how Paul & Apollos witnessed the stiff religious Jews of their day in the synagogues?) That becomes the model for those who are stuck in their surface religious activity, yet don't know the One True God.
“He was not”
My Jesus is alive.
Eh ???
When I get better straight men.
Is that what ELSIE does, every time?
You Are 90% Conservative, 10% Liberal
Social Issues: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal
Personal Responsibility: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal
Fiscal Issues: 100% Conservative, 0% Liberal
Ethics: 75% Conservative, 25% Liberal
Defense and Crime: 100% Conservative, 0% Libera
Religion: ????????????????
So you’re saying you need a real man? Someone who can protect and direct you so that you don’t have time or inclination for all these cut-n-paste posts?
trolling again? Shouldn’t you be in the kitchen making breakfast?
That was from an online test which didnt include religion.
I’m 100% Christian, born again evangelical.
Then why the apparent love for Mormonism?
We’ll there ya go, you’re predilection for trolling has caused you to miss the obvious.
All I’m saying is the hateful approach used in these threads is not an effective way of evangelizing for Christ.
Yep, there are times I am sick to death of hearing “but they are such good people”.
Problem is all that “goodness” is not from the heart but them working for their own salvation.
My first real exposure to momonISm was 1962, the more I learned the more mortified I became.
Because my mormon family thinks me to be “one of those primitives”, they have no fear in telling me everything.
I guess they think I am to stupid to understand anyway.
Three years a ago after my cousin gave birth to her umtiump child, she became very depressed.
Her husband didn’t understand or was embarrassed by her behavior. He berated her, took her their bishop who berated her (thinking himself a counselor I guess).
This continued to escalate, she lost friends, her temple job
because just couldn’t function. (Yea, she also worked full time, but kept that perfection going, go to keep up the ‘goodness’)
Finally, both her husband and bishop said she was unworthy of being “called” two days later she took her own life.
Her parents, her siblings still dutifully go to ward and do their work....mustn’t give the impression to the outside word things are wrong.
Sorry, this is long, I just wanted you to know I completely understand the blasphemy and sham appearance of what is called mormonISM.
Before anyone says I should have helped, I would have had I known, you see because I would not cover to mormonISM she wouldn’d see me. See how ‘good’ that is.
“All I’m saying is the hateful approach used in these threads is not an effective way of evangelizing for Christ.”
1. Exposing cultic error is not equal to hate.
2. Prove this isn’t an effective way to evangelize.
Since you mis characterize the first in your post, I doubt you will be able to provide evidence for your claim in the second...
But post your evidence.
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