American "black" culture is a failure, academically speaking. I don't think its as genetic as many here might think, I knew too many minorities in college, usually from a non-American black upbringing, who were in engineering and science, and did as well as I did. Its mostly a cultural debacle we have witnessed.
That’s what I was thinking. There seems to be a significant difference between American blacks and non-American blacks, such as those from the West Indies or Ethiopia.
I don’t think it’s a black phenomenon, as much as an American black culture phenomenon.
True dat! I knew enough minorities in the service over a decade to know what you’re saying. At the same time, I knew some black kids dumb as framing hammers.
Yes, that is the problem stated far better than what one could infer from my snarky comment. The situation is a shame. Where are the Black leaders??? It is tragic.
If we did not lump Americans by race but by experience we have immigrants, slaves, native Americans and acquisition by conquest/treaty (Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Virgin Island, Pacific territories). Most Americans are immigrants. Black immigrants have more in common with whites then blacks descendant from slaves. Make a bet the test scores are different from African black immigrants then American blacks from slaves. Even Caribbean blacks are different in terms of entrepreneur and self sufficiency. Go to their neighborhoods and you will see black owned stores and businesses. Same with Hispanics. Go to neighborhoods of American blacks and no stores except the ones owned by outsiders.
It IS mostly cultural. There are many very smart black people in this country, we just never see them because they aren't considered 'cool'. Even worse, if they're not sucking up to the Democrats, they are considered 'Uncle Toms' and are ignored by the media, when they're not being vilified by it.
Until black parents demand that their kids stay in school and stop trying to act ghetto like the latest gang banging rap star, they'll continue to be poor and uneducated, and it will be no one's fault but their own.
Of course the ones who made it into college would have passed the same tests that everyone else there had also passed, so of course the black students there would have been of the same general caliber; they are a selected population, just as every other ethnic group there was also. If, in fact, the matter is truly genetic, then the relevant question is whether the group of blacks there was just as representative a sample of their population as everyone else there was of theirs. Contrary to your beliefs, I think the evidence is overwhelming that they were not, i.e. that there is a large genetic component. Which incidentally is not contradicted by, and can’t be refuted by, anecdotal, statistical outliers. (Or the performance of highly selected samples, such as your college classmates, i.e. who gained admission.)
In my college engineering program, there were black students. Several hailed from Nigeria and other African nations, while one notable one came from the Caribbean. Cannot recall an African-American, though one might have existed.
CULTURAL DEBACLE. I've never heard it put that way however, THAT is the problem in a nutshell. Fatherless children. It's especially hard on the young black males who REALLY need a black dad to teach them to deal with adult male...and white...authority. White dads teach their sons to deal with adult male authority and the black dads have that one more step to do.
Agreed. I believe it is a cultural issue.
I grew up believing it was 100% cultural.
My best guess now is that those who study such things are probably right, and though a good chunk of it is cultural a perhaps larger chunk is due to different genetic averages.
That doesn’t mean that much shouldn’t still be done on the cultural side, it only means that expecting totally equal results among different populations may not be realistic.