Please Pray For My Mom... and Advice-- Is this the Obama Death Panel in action? (Sad update #118)

Me

[MacMattico]

Please say a Prayer for my mother.

I don't think I've ever asked some one to pray for some one else before, but she's in a tough spot. If it is her time to go it will hurt terribly, but as Catholics and the fact that she is the most caring, loving person I have ever met, I know we will meet again in a better place.

I'm also extremely upset with the hospital, and I don't want this to happen to others.

On the day after Christmas, my mother was taken to the hospital and diagnosed with Pneumonia. They also told us her kidneys were not functioning very well, but not end stage or where she needed dialysis or anything like that. Her lungs had a lot of fluid in them. Fast forward four days and they said the fluid was gone as well as any sign of infection. But my mother was still mostly unresponsive and wanted to sleep all of the time. My sisters and I have been able to wake her on occasion and she will talk with us for a few minutes before going back to sleep. When she had the fluid in the lungs, they did not provide hydration as they said she couldn't handle it, antibiotics were intravenously given. So, obviously, at least to me, when they said the fluid was gone and infection cleared up, I expected to see the IV fluids begin, but they didn't. I demanded hydration be started and every excuse was given to me: she didn't need it, she woke up and drank enough,( not true, my sister and/or I were there hour after hour and she wasn't drinking). I asked the doctor if he were trying to kill her -- it was going on 3-4 days with no adequate fluids. I told him my mother was Catholic and would not want to die from dehydration and starvation-- that was her biggest fear. He then said she couldn't handle it. I said I was going to speak with an attorney if she didn't have IV hydration when I came back in an hour. I came back in an hour and she had three bags of fluids and basically sugar water hooked up to her IV. She has been on this ever sense, no problems. And of course her kidney function improved with fluids, obviously. You can't urinate without fluid!

Now we are well over a week and my mother has barely eaten. My family inquired into ways of feeding her, a tube through the nose, feeding tube, intervenously. The doctor absolutely refuses saying her organs can't handle it! I said if your telling us she's going to die anyway due to organ failure, we want some nutrition provided. He refused and said she can go without food much longer, but I reminded him she knows what is said to her, responds, and I had called the nursing home where she had been staying (because she had trouble getting around and making meals and taking her medication on time), and they said she wasn't eating well for approximately two weeks. So we're going on three weeks with little to no food intake! The hospital refuses to feed her ! My mother is weak and has diabetes-- I can't see how trying nutrition after all this time could hurt her any more! I argued with the doctor and he refuses to follow our wishes-- a nurse even tried to change her DNR which only indicated she didn't want CPR! I caught her and threatened her with calling the police as the whole family has seen the dnr and knows what's on it. I guess the doctors argument is because she is on oxygen at night it would make it easier for her to bring up any liquid in her stomach and choke to death and that her organs can't handle it-- yet he keeps saying "maybe next week" like she's going to get better! I really think he just wants her to die as quickly as possible, and it's killing me she is not being fed. He almost went ballistic when another doctor checked her out and she knew it was January, her name and that Obama was President-- she even rolled her eyes at the name Obama! He wanted to tell us she was brain dead or close to it, I honestly think. I don't know what to do. He's says she may choke at night with the intense oxygen mask they give her and her organs can't take food right now, yet the nurses had me trying to feed her from a tray yesterday! She took only one bite and fell asleep. I don't know what to do! The doctor acts like a feeding tube will be torture, I think starvation is. There are no family members that disagree with me. Our family Priest has says she has a right to hydration and nutrition, the doctor says no nutrition "in her condition" which he constantly changes. She is on Medicare (although with the best supplemental money can buy) and I think the death panels have begun.

[Kathy in Alaska]

Rest in Peace, Mac's Mom.

Abide With Me

[TropicanaRose]

I’m so sorry for your loss.

Thank you for starting this thread & thanks to the many helpful replies. I have an elderly mom who is a retired RN so very hospital-savvy, but some of these were good points she had not considered. I am printing out & saving much of the advice given here.

[onyx]

I’m so sad and sorry. Your cherished Mother had wonderful children and she knew your love as much as you all knew hers. Like you said, she’s now with your Dad in the arms of our Lord and Savior.

You all tried your very best on her behalf. God bless and keep you and your family. I will continue to pray for you all and for the sweet soul of your mom.

[annalex]

Lord Jesus, rest Thy servant with the saints.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

[Sun]

Prayers for all of you! Your mom knew she had such loving children, and is now very happy in God’s loving arms.

[Fawnn]

May your mother rest in God’s peace.

Prayers for and condolences to you and your mother’s other family and friends.

[BykrBayb]

I am so sorry about the loss of your Mother. I pray you take comfort in the knowledge that she is now happy in the arms of Our Lord.

[darrellmaurina]

I just found this note. I was writing a response to individual items with specific suggestions for help as I got angrier and angrier reading through this thread, and then I started crying when I saw post #118 that your mother had died.

I'm still responding because I believe some good can come out of this situation. Many, many, many other Freepers, as TropicanaRose pointed out with regard to her retired RN mother, have not thought through what it means to live in an environment where we can no longer assume doctors and hospitals are there to save lives.

Something similar happened to my mother, not at the Roman Catholic hospital where she was in the ICU (which did the right thing) but at a nursing home of my mother's once-evangelical denomination to which she was transferred after leaving the hospital, and which I discovered too late had a notorious anti-life professor among its board members. There are important differences in details, but the bottom line is that I am absolutely convinced my badly dehydrated and starving mother expected to get food and water in the nursing home, lapsed into unconsciousness due to lack of food and water, and from that point on nothing could be done because she was no longer able to make decisions on her own.

The key lesson for others in this situation is that people need to get seriously ill relatives into hospitals and under the care of doctors who share your values.

A second lesson is that MestaMachine is right about the need to make sure a patient has not signed medical documents that you don't know about. Patients are in the hospital because they are sick, and by definition they may lose consciousness or not fully understand what they are signing. Anyone in a potential end-of-life situation needs to have trusted (and TRUST is a key word, don't assume, but ASK what the “trusted” person really thinks) people who can exercise a medical power of attorney, just in case. Depending on state law, it may be critical to get a living will or similar document that **SPECIFICALLY** makes clear that food and water are to be provided. A pro-life lawyer familiar with your state's laws is helpful and may become absolutely essential.

Without those two steps — a doctor sharing your values and a legal document allowing you to make the decisions you know that your mother wants — nothing else will work.

Also, the advice of Brad’s Gramma and Chickensoup is important. No matter how much you trust the hospital, make sure someone is in that room **EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY.** That applies even at the best hospitals (good hospitals can hire bad RNs and LPNs). I am aware of horrific situations, up to and including rapes of patients by male nurses, but uncaring and underpaid staff are a more common problem. The simple physical presence of a family member will deter most cases of staff abuse or neglect.

Finally, I really, really, **REALLY** hate to say this as an evangelical Protestant, but based on my own experience, I'd choose a Roman Catholic hospital over nearly all secular hospitals and many Protestant hospitals in dealing with potential end-of-life issues, unless I was absolutely sure the Protestant hospital clearly shared my values on these issues. There are certain benefits to having a Pope and a hierarchy when they're right, and on this issue of active or passive euthanasia, the **ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS RIGHT.** The Roman Catholic Church will (or should) force Catholic hospitals to follow the rules. I'm not naive enough to think bad things don't happen in Roman Catholic hospitals, but I think under current conditions, the bishops are generally pretty good at enforcing the church's position on pro-life issues.

Doctors are supposed to be saving lives, not discouraging life-saving treatment — and providing food and water isn't even **CLOSE** to life-saving treatment.

May God bless you and your family in a horrific situation.

[darrellmaurina]

Kathie4guv and Fatima, I so much wish a decade ago, when my mother was dying, that I had seen your advice and especially the link to the “Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network.”

Many of us have not thought through what it means to live in an environment where we can no longer assume doctors and hospitals are there to save lives.

Jim Robinson and Onyx — I'd like to ask you to seriously consider whether Free Republic can do something in an organized way to investigate and possibly go after Crouse Hospital in Syracuse. The hospital only recently emerged from bankruptcy and that sets off major red flags in my mind.

What happened to MacMattico seems like something that at the very least needs to be investigated.

The weblink for the hospital is here: http://www.crouse.org/

Here are just a few links to information on the hospital's financial problems:

Crouse Hospital's School of Nursing flunks financial test
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/crouse_hospitals_school_of_nur.html

SYRACUSE FACES RISING HEALTH COSTS; HOSPITAL COMPETITION GROWS
http://www.hschange.com/CONTENT/793/793.pdf

Here's a quote from the second link: “Crouse Hospital’s emergence from bankruptcy and attempts to regain lost market share have stirred hospital competition in Syracuse. At the same time, the pace of development of new physician-owned ambulatory and diagnostic facilities and acquisition of diagnostic equipment has slowed, but increased utilization has contributed to rising health care costs.”

Jim, Free Republic has a long history of doing a lot of good to expose bad things. We don't know all the facts. It is entirely possible that a good pro-life lawyer, after looking at everything which was done, would concur that the standard of care was the best possible under bad circumstances. None of our bodies are immortal and some people cannot be saved despite the best medical care available. Maybe the doctors did all that could be done. I don't know.

But I think it is well within the realm of possibility that we have, as the title of this thread says, “the Obama Death Panel in action.”

Jim, given your own medical difficulties, I think God may be giving you a platform on Free Republic to track and expose hospital abuse of seriously ill patients. That's your call, not mine, but I'd ask you to pray seriously about it.

I think there are a lot of pro-life doctors, nurses and lawyers on Free Republic who might be able to organize a “rapid reaction” squad to help people in future situations similar to that of MacMattico, and maybe save some lives while exposing Obamacare for what it is.

And as we all know, lots of people on FOX News, Breitbart, WND, CNS, the Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal, and other conservative media outlets read Free Republic regularly for story ideas. Maybe Crouse Hospital did everything right, but if there are any hospitals which harm or kill someone’s elderly parents via a “Death Panel,” they need to get called on the carpet.

Free Republic could take a local small-town situation and blow it up very quickly.

Please pray about this.

[fatima]

Thanks for the ping darrellmaurina.I am in media just a little and non-profit.I do get pray requests and as soon as I hear they are not feeding I have them call Terri’s family who will back them up.It took me awhile to figure out what happened to my Mom.I went to see her,she was sitting up in bed and had no tubes nothing.That was Friday night at 10 PM.She was to be released on Sunday,they had said nothing was wrong with her she was just constipated.She woke up Saturday and said she was leaving and started to pack her bags.They called my sister and she gave them permission to sedate.She was dead Sunday at 1AM.She was over sedated and forgot to breath.She was 74.

[MestaMachine]

Thank you for posting this and pinging me. I had not seen Post 118 and did not know.

Mac, please accept my sincere condolences. I am so very sorry and my prayers are with you and your family. May G-d be with you and ease the pain of your loss, but know in your heart that your mom is at peace now and be comforted.

Anyone else reading this thread, bookmark it and learn what you MUST do to ensure the kind of healthcare you or a family member might need. Be aware and have an attorney on speed dial should any problem arise.
Terri’s Fight and our loss cannot ever be forgotten or in vain.

[MacMattico]

Sorry if everyone is getting their third or fourth Thank You reply from me on this thread, but there are just so many wonderful people on this site and so many more have replied and sent me PM’s that I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anyone. We had my mother's funeral Mass and my 14 year old daughter gave a touching reading, from Isaiah 25. She was so upset and sad, but she did a wonderful job. When we practiced the night before, she was crying and said the word “veal” instead of “veil”. But it made us laugh so that was a good thing. But you could tell she had a small sigh of relief when she got past the second “veils” in Isaiah— there were no “veals” at the church during the service! I did the remembrance of my Mom and stayed up until 5 am trying to condense a wonderful, caring life into a 5-10 minute speech. I could have gone on for hours with all of the memories! Instead I chose to give examples of selfless, caring things I witnessed her do for other people, and addressed her Grandchildren, telling each of them how I saw her loving traits in each one of them. At one point I even got the Priest to laugh!

I know my mother is in a better place. My sister told me when I had stepped out of my mother's room, my mother had opened her eyes, looked past the people in the room as if someone were there and said “Lord, please help me.” Within a few hours she passed. I think her prayer was answered, and God waited those few extra hours to allow my other sister to arrive.

I still don't like the way the hospital treated her, and us, although if I look at the overall picture, there were many caring people, especially her nurses. We are not a family that will attempt to sue, but we are also not a family that will say thank you and quietly go away. People will hear her story.

Not to sound like an advertisement, but after I get a few things settled I think I am going to start donating to Free Republic. I have never been comforted by a better group of people, and I don't want this website to go away!

[diamond6]

I think it’s admirable how much you are defending your mother. I hope when the day comes, my children stand by me and their father if we ever go through something like this.

Everybody needs an medical advocate, there are so many who don’t. It’s so sad.

[diamond6]

Hello FRiend, thought you might want to read this and chime in.

I hope you had a merry Christmas!

[diamond6]

This is a link to “The Good Fight” with Barbara Mcwiggin (spelling??). She interviewed a physician (and FReeper) re: this very issue. I urge all to listen.

http://www.ewtn.com/Live/unicorn/jwplayer.asp?feed=mp3&mp3audio=gf818&mp3show=The%20Good%20Fight

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Dear MacMattico,
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m sorry I didn’t see the pings to this thread earlier as I have not been online much lately. If you still need to discuss any of these issues, please get in touch. I just sent you a PM with my contact info. Though it wasnt my mom, I went through a very similar ordeal with a close personal friend. Diamond6 posted a link above to an EWTN radio interview I did about these issues and what happened to my friend.

Be assured of my prayers,
Brian