What you want more of you subsidize, what you want less of you tax.
Posted on 11/11/2012 8:40:25 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
We are currently caught in a national debate which in my opinion misses the very (most) important aspect.
We are currently debating between conservatives, and liberals.
Conservatives are determined to maximise profits.
Liberals are determined to maximise unions.
Both of those are wrong goals. What we need as a nation, are maximum profits which benefit America.
America is what is not looked at.
America.
If the government doesn’t protect intellectual property rights, that’s a problem on our end of the pond. Companies also need to be aware of industrial espionage as well as governments. Aka don’t rely on the government. People in new jersey are figuring this out now.
With declining incomes, less expensive imports retain standard of living.
You’re looking to solve a government caused problem with more government.
I’ll let others decide what to do in that case.
China does (not) own dollars. Divested them about a year ago.
Stop importing from China.
It really hurts me to say that. I was a very, very strong free trader for a long time. Since the very beginning with China.
What I see is a complete loss of all rationality.
Our policy with China is no policy. Complete random sell-out.
We must change that.
Now.
What happened this last election will destroy America. I say let it burn. The true patroits will be around to clean the ashes from our Constitutional foundation and rebuild. The only way to fix it is to let it burn. The infestation has become to great.
Did you forget there was an election last week? Obama says he wants the jobs here. Problem is, he only wants them for jobs and no profit.
Who the hell wants, or can afford to do that?
They threw life and liberty in that sentence too.
The government that caused the problem was ours - by deciding that trading with communists was a suave move.
It isn’t. The only good communist is a dead communist.
So what’s the beef with retaliating against the ChiCom’s? The number of supposed “conservatives” who are sticking up for the ability of the communists to flood our markets with their crap to finance their military expansion is rather ironic.
What you want more of you subsidize, what you want less of you tax.
No. There is much more than that.
America has been expensive, which was probably the reason nobody stopped to build in equal-treatment language in all the “free trade” pacts with the world.
Who needs “free trade” when the goal is simply to get out of high-cost America.
That is what is wrong. We have no equal treatment. Especially in China where we don’t actually own anything.
What we are building in China is (exceedingly) dangerous.
We need to equalize trade, or abandon it.
Now.
I’m with ya all the way but not bloody likely under this administration. Still, preach it high.
I agree with your view on communism. Trading, with them subsidizing their own industries, will lead them to collapse because it adds inefficiency (any time a middle man is involved) to the system. That is unless we’re dumber than they are with our own finances.
Any country could have taken the place of china in this scenario. All it takes is a country looking further ahead and willing to subsidize industry while lending money to their host. The key part here is to not take the debt. It is a low intensity war that we are going to lose if we keep on the path we’re on. We gotta stop signing the convenience checks. Debt is a control device. Why else would government taking over all the lending in the country?
REALLY?
Maximize profits?? Sorry, WRONG. We are conservative to maximize FREEDOMS, not profit.
Demanding jobs to come back without incentives (like lower taxes, open shop, etc) is not CONSERVATIVE.
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the USA, of course, but mechanization, automation, computerization, robotics and improved work methods do.
They equal unparalleled productivity improvements!
And somebody wants to bring back "what" from China? There'd be more impact from simply prohibiting computers from being owned and used. We'd be back to an early 20th century industrial economy in no time.
There are some who believe as you say. Many are right here on this forum.
Those running the show however, are on balance a far less patriotic bunch.
Just saying.
You have meddled with the primary forces of nature, Mr Beale, and I won’t have it! Is that clear?
You think you merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tide and gravity. It is ecological balance.
You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no Third Worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems. One vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-varied, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rands, rubles, pounds and shekels.
It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic, and sub-atomic and galactic structure of things today.
And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature. And you will atone.
Am I getting through to you, Mr Beale?
You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today.
What do you think the Russians talk about in their Councils of State? Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, mini-max solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do.
We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bye-laws of of business. The world is a business, Mr Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime.
And our children will live, Mr Beale, to see that ... perfect ... world in which there is no war nor famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company for whom all men will work to serve a common profit. In which all men will hold a share of stock.
All necessities provided. All anxieties tranquilized. All boredom amused.
-Arthur Jensen (Network 1976)
I think we can be conservative and bring jobs back. In the 1960’s, even Barry Goldwater and Strom Thurmond voted down various free trade bills.
I grew up in Detroit and well remember when the first of the high wage low skill jobs left.
Economically they were not sustainable, so they left. The lead story in 1979 on any TV news show was how many days of inventory Chrysler had stored at the Michigan State Fairgounds. Seriously.
For my job I moved to Mexico to help launch the GMT 805 and 806 for GM in Silao Guanajuato.
I expected to see a third world plant with bodies thrown at every process. No. This was a first world assembly plant that only needed 2500 people to do what in Detroit would take 4500 people.
The pay rate was 800 pesos per week which is like $800 here in the USA.
You want to stop the outflow of manufacturing jobs? Not easy..
Even with all the manufacturing jobs China received from the USA they still lost 16 Million manufacturing jobs between 1995 and 2005.
Manufacturing jobs will be to this century what farm jobs were to the last.
In 1900 30% of all jobs were farm jobs. Now farm jobs account for 2% of all jobs.
The only way to preserve jobs is to be the most efficient workers in the world which we are, thanks to Engineering.
Want to stop outsourcing? Complain about the lack of engineering process improvements, not China.
Workers are only as good as the process they are given, therefore give them better processes.
China is not the problem, we are.
Makes me wish I had gramp’s M1 Garand, .45 and Luger from WWII.
I agree. The market currently “sustains” too many useless lib arts degree holders. The government seems to employ and maintain the employment of a lot of parasitic load. (tied up or wasted capital) If higher tech degrees were what the workforce and job market demanded, than people would have to get those skills. In a free market society these skills and opportunities would be quick to change/manifest because capaital would be available and in quantity to make it so. In whatever the market demands, the country with the most free market has a distinct advantage in versatility, speed, and (most critically) efficiency.
I appreciate my engineering degree for more than just the skill set. The mindset is priceless.
I used to believe as you do.
I have gradually changed my mind. China is methodically capturing technologies. And keeping them.
All businesses in China have a Chinese majority owner.
China is a very big, and growing problem. And we have appeared so far, to completely ignore the problem.
You cannot un-posess a technology that you currently have. Others can steal that tech, but that doesn’t mean you no longer have it.
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