But Mitt Romney's a Mormon! (Fear not)

The Washington Times Communities ^ | October 20, 2012 | Amanda Read

[SincerelyAmanda]

Our White House has been residence to Unitarians, at least one likely Deist, and multiple Freemasons. Is Romney’s Mormonism really any weirder?

[Elsie]

And therein is a telling point: some of these self-appointed Inmans DO HATE at least one Mormon, they hate Mitt Romney, and have taken the religion forum to use for a political attack gaggle.

Now, now...

Don't use a MORMON technique of ATTACKING faceless folks.

If you actually HAVE the information on these 'some', then name the names!

Otherwise, a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal comes to mind.

[Elsie]

Gave this old dog a broad smile ...

We ALL need a smile in these stressful days leading up to the election for POTUS!

I'm afraid that no matter WHO wins the Oval office, MORE than half of the population of the USA ain't gonna be happy about it!

[Elsie]

Billy Graham disagrees with svcw and the other anti Mormons on this site.

Hiya Sandy!

I see that you'll be up to your old tricks of trying to put words into others mouths.

---

President Hugh B. Brown, counselor in the First Presidency said:

“I admire men and women who have developed the questing spirit, who are unafraid of new ideas as stepping stones to progress. We should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also be unafraid to dissent – if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth emerges triumphant. Only error fears freedom of expression. . .

 This free exchange of ideas is not to be deplored as long as men and women remain humble and teachable. Neither fear of consequence or any kind of coercion should ever be used to secure uniformity of thought in the church. People should express their problems and opinions and be unafraid to think without fear of ill consequences. . . .

We must preserve the freedom of the mind in the church and resist all efforts to suppress it.”

 

(Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life: The Memoirs of Hugh B. Brown, ed. Edwin B. Firmage (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1988), 137-39;

Hugh B. Brown, “An Eternal Quest—Freedom of the Mind,” a speech delivered at Brigham Young University, 13 May 1969, in Speeches of the Year (Provo, UT): Brigham Young University Press, 1969); rpt.

In Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 17 (Spring 1984): 77-83)

[Elsie]

...even the old-skool antimormons signed legislation for the “extermination of mormons” resulting in a load of dead mormons.

A load is right!

Uh; can you provide some DAGTA for the thing you just claimed?

Just how many WERE killed, due to the legislation?

[Elsie]

Of course, as things move on, I expect enemy re-editors hashing out their differences on wiki, which is kind of an amusing spectacle all by itself.

Nothing compared to the cleansing of MORMON history...

---

 

 

Eerily familiar...

 

 

Party ownership of the print media
made it easy to manipulate public opinion,
and the film and radio carried the process further.

 

16. Ministry Of Truth

.......

The Ministry of Truth, Winston's place of work, contained, it was said, three thousand rooms above ground level, and corresponding ramifications below.

The Ministry of Truth concerned itself with Lies. Party ownership of the print media made it easy to manipulate public opinion, and the film and radio carried the process further.

The primary job of the Ministry of Truth was to supply the citizens of Oceania with newspapers, films, textbooks, telescreen programmes, plays, novels - with every conceivable kind of information, instruction, or entertainment, from a statue to a slogan, from a lyric poem to a biological treatise, and from a child's spelling-book to a Newspeak dictionary.

Winston worked in the RECORDS DEPARTMENT (a single branch of the Ministry of Truth) editing and writing for The Times. He dictated into a machine called a speakwrite. Winston would receive articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to alter, or, in Newspeak, rectify. If, for example, the Ministry of Plenty forecast a surplus, and in reality the result was grossly less, Winston's job was to change previous versions so the old version would agree with the new one. This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, sound-tracks, cartoons, photographs - to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance.

When his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. He dialed 'back numbers' on the telescreen and called for the appropriate issues of The Times, which slid out of the pneumatic tube after only a few minutes' delay. The messages he had received referred to articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to rectify.

In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages; to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and on the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.

As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames.

What happened in the unseen labyrinth to which the tubes led, he did not know in detail, but he did know in general terms. As soon as all the corrections which happened to be necessary in any particular number of The Times had been assembled and collated, that number would be reprinted, the original copy destroyed, and the corrected copy placed on the files in its stead.

In the cubicle next to him the little woman with sandy hair toiled day in day out, simply at tracking down and deleting from the Press the names of people who had been vaporized and were therefore considered never to have existed. And this hall, with its fifty workers or thereabouts, was only one-sub-section, a single cell, as it were, in the huge complexity of the Records Department. Beyond, above, below, were other swarms of workers engaged in an unimaginable multitude of jobs.

There were huge printing-shops and their sub editors, their typography experts, and their elaborately equipped studios for the faking of photographs. There was the tele-programmes section with its engineers, its producers and its teams of actors specially chosen for their skill in imitating voices; clerks whose job was simply to draw up lists of books and periodicals which were due for recall; vast repositories where the corrected documents were stored; and the hidden furnaces where the original copies were destroyed.

And somewhere or other, quite anonymous, there were the directing brains who co-ordinated the whole effort and laid down the lines of policy which made it necessary that this fragment of the past should be preserved, that one falsified, and the other rubbed out of existence.

 

 

[Elsie]

But I’m not really interested in debating the meaning of “is” with you.

This is your choice; but many will now be wondering if you are able to do so.

[Elsie]

So much for the turn your other cheek thingy...

[Elsie]

Book of Mormon change: Instead of being the "principal ancestors" of American Indians, Lamanites are now......?among the ancestors of the American Indians.?

 [The original phrase and the changes are noted in Red and bold for emphasis]

In the Introduction to the Book of Mormon the second paragraph reads:

?The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of the two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites.

After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.?

This was included in the first printing runs of the Doubleday Edition.

 

In the latest printing of the Doubleday Edition of the Book of Mormon, the last sentence was changed to read:

?...After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians.?

The interesting thing is this change is not published anywhere. Additionally, the new Doubleday Edition still lists itself as a first edition. I am no publisher, but my understanding was when you made changes, you listed it as a second, third, etc. edition. The second edition also indicates that it is still first printing, which would be impossible since the change was made. [post further down explains the publishing numbering practices]

[Elsie]

Source for above: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon492.htm

[PapaBear3625]

So much for the turn your other cheek thingy...

I do not believe that "turn the other cheek" means "passively stand there and let yourself and your family be killed". I strongly doubt you would find that many people on FR who would go with that.

If somebody slaps me on the cheek, I may respond with "WTF was THAT for?" and try to resolve the issue without escalation. I would not cut off his head and parade it around the neighborhood (in that, I am different from some Muslims). Somebody who shows me he intends to kill me will get a much stronger response.

The Catholic catechism holds that self defense, in the sense of using the minimum force necessary to preserve your life and the lives of those under your protection, is just and proper.

[Hardraade]

Go away, crossgender.

[Sherman Logan]

You have obviously misread my post. Many if not most American denominations, at least in the South, held more or less exactly the same position with regard to keeping blacks “in their place,” segregation, intermarriage, etc. through much of the 20th century.

Different denominations abandoned these, IMO, unscriptural doctrines at different point over the course of the last century. At present they are held only by obscure groups similar in numbers and influence to the Westboro Baptist Church.

The Mormons were among the last to abandon these doctrines, but you cannot hold them uniquely responsible for doctrinal error when similar doctrines were at one time or another held by most “Christian” churches in this country.

(I use quotes around “Christian” because I am referring to all groups that claim to be Christian, without getting down in the weeds to argue about which are and are not. That’s a valid topic for discussion, but is not relevant to this issue.)

[Hegewisch Dupa]

Huh?

What CHOICE?

First honest thing you've posted in weeks; maybe there is hope...

[Godzilla]

You are backpedaling on your claim. IF such occured as a direct result of Bogg’s order there would be historic evidence showing that substantial numbers of mormons were rounded up and executed. You simply cannot provide any specific documentation.

That says a lot about the validity of your claim.

It has nothing to do with the meaning of ‘is’, it has everything to do with separating mythology from fact. Since you can’t put up, perhaps you should put the shovel down and stop digging yourself in deeper.

[Godzilla]

I’m pleased that I can add a new name to the antimormon pantheon here.

Why? because YOU make a claim that you CANNOT back up with facts. Cry me a river won't 'cha

[Sherman Logan]

Good luck with getting a straight answer about the number actually killed by the Missouri mobs.

Went thru the Salt Lake visitor center several years back, and distinctly remember it giving the impression of huge numbers of murdered Mormons.

So on a discussion thread similar to this one I asked the Mormon participants for a documented list of those killed: name, date, location, particulars, etc. It would seem reasonable to expect that such a list would be widely available.

Could not find one anywhere, only hyperbolic statements about massive numbers of murders.

One of the reasons this interested me is that AFAIK the single largest number of Mormons killed was at Haun’s Mill in MO. I grew up not far away. 17 Mormons died there, and they (mostly) died in combat with the mobsters, not slaughtered in cold blood. I have seen no evidence at all that any women, or with one exception children, were intentionally killed there.

I have never seen anything to document that more people weren’t murdered by the Mormons at Mountain Meadows than Mormons were killed in all the Mormon/Gentile conflicts in the midwest.

Given the peculiarly atrocious circumstances of the MMM it seems the Mormons came out way ahead in the atrocity contest.

There are of course many rumors from the time of Mormons murdering Gentiles, but I pay not attention to those if they can’t be documented.

[Godzilla]

Could not find one anywhere, only hyperbolic statements about massive numbers of murders.

Your observations match mine. Hawn Mill had 17 deaths and occurred shortly after the mormon assault on gov't forces at Crooked River. Further, historians indicate that though Hawn mill occured after the Boggs order, there was not enough time for it to have gotten to militias - therefore, Hawn mill was independent of it. Needless to say passions were inflamed on both sides - both behaved badly.

RLDS remained there and were not killed off. However, Young's poorly planned hand cart fiasco killed more mormons than Bogg's order.

They (mormons) were also driven from Kirkland because of Smith's banking fiasco.

Nauvoo was due to smith's treason and abuse of power.

You point out MMM. That was the most famous, as other wagon trains were also attacked. Doesn't include massacres of indian tribes by the Young forces.

Persecution complex to mask the real history.

[Saundra Duffy]

I see where nothing has changed around here. Same old anti Mormon dog pile. Cheer up - maybe you can get me banned again for being a Mormon.

[Saundra Duffy]

I see where nothing has changed around here. Same old anti Mormon dog pile. Cheer up - maybe you can get me banned again for being a Mormon.

[Saundra Duffy]

I have always loved and admired Billy Graham.