Posted on 09/16/2012 11:52:44 AM PDT by fabian
Now celebrating 52 years of helping people on the radio! For over half a century Roy Masters has been helping people overcome their most difficult problems. As the nation’s first and longest running radio counselor, Roy Masters has advised callers with a unique ability to hear inner problems, heal fears and sexual stresses, and help people take charge of their own lives. Great show and exactly what the world needs! Here is a radio show stations page... http://www.fhu.com/radiostations.html
When did the gates of hell prevail against the Church, the pillar and foundation of truth, that wrote, canonized and preserved the Bible?
Where does your standard for judging the truth of doctrine come from?
From a logical perspective, at the very least, the Bible should claim to be the only standard by which truth should be judged. It doesn’t.
The standard that you have adopted, “the Bible alone,” is Luther’s alone. He had no authority to promulgate this novel teaching.
See if you can find a historical reference to Luther’s doctrine prior to his time, or in the Bible.
And not only Hubbard, but in occultic revelations he is similar to souls like Mary Baker Eddy, http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Bible_versus_S.C.C.S.html:
“In the year 1866 I discovered the Science of Metaphysical healing, and named it Christian Science. God had been graciously fitting me, during many years, for the reception of a final revelation of the absolute Principle of a Scientific Mind-healing. No human pen or tongue taught me the science contained in this book...and neither tongue nor pen can overthrow it.”
And Joe Smith, http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/JosephSmithVersusJESUS.CHRIST.html:
Claimed that the angel “Moroni” (who is nowhere found in the Bible) told him every single church, without exception, and their essential beliefs (which Mormons build upon) were corrupt?
Writes a fantastic and detailed tale of an immigration of Hebrews to South America, which supposedly formed a vast society.
And Swedenborg, http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Swedenborg.html:
..his occultic delusions began in 1744, resulting in him announcing that he had received a divine summons from Christ to become “both a seer and a revelator of the things of the spiritual world...” and restore Christianity. He claimed that the Lord had opened his spiritual eyes, so that from then on he could freely visit heaven and hell, and talk with angels, demons and other spirits.
Or Muhammad, http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/JESUS.Vs.Muhammad.html:
And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?:
That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them..4:157 (Yusuf Ali)
Or Elijah Muhammad, http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/BIBLE_vs_NOI.html:
The moon came about after a black scientist/god drilled a 4 to 5,000 mile mine shaft into the Earth then detonated explosives at the bottom. This blasted the moon 12,000 miles out of the earth, which dropped it’s waters to make the oceans
The devil is the white man, created through 600 years of compelled selective breeding of 59,999 followers on the island of Patmos (a small Greek island of 13 square miles, Pop. 3,000) by an evil scientist-god by the name of Yacub, who was born (approx.) 6,600 years ago 20 miles from Mecca. He died but his followers carried on his project until completion
Among others.
The church fell down once it adopted the Jesus is God doctrine and lost the real meaning of prayer. Roy Masters has indeed revived that “Be Still and know that I am God” of the bible. And the objective truth is revealed identically in all truth lovers as a conscience, or holy spirit. That is what instructed the authors of the bible.
>No, if you are honest, you guys have fought me all the way about my idea of being free from sin as I have shown you is even all over the new testament once we are saved. You are proposing that we can still sin and go to heaven!.. once the born again experience is done, there is no more possibility of sinning because we are sealed into God’s army at that point. <
Fabian, “Who hath who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth? (Gal. 3:1) for what has been shown is rather than being born again being a process, which the N.T. nowhere teaches, which, one attained, means one not longer ever sins, what the Scriptures teach is that being “born again,” “from above”, “of the Spirit” in contrast to the flesh, is a conversion event that makes one an adopted child of God, without which one is not, and is realized by repentant faith in the Lord Jesus, and begins growth in grace.
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. “ (John 3:3)
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. “ (John 3:6)
“But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. “ (Galatians 4:29)
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) “ (John 7:38-39)
“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. “ (John 14:16-17)
“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. “ (James 1:18)
“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. “ (Acts 10:43)
“And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. “ (Acts 15:8-9)
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. “ (Galatians 4:6)
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, “ (1 Peter 1:3)
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also [having] believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, “ (Ephesians 1:13)
“Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. “ (2 Corinthians 5:5)
“Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. “ (2 Corinthians 1:22)
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. “ (Romans 8:10-11)
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? “ (1 Corinthians 3:16)
Thus to be born again is to have been born of the Spirit, which all the believers in the churches had been, and sealed thereby, by the word of truth, even the immature problematic Corinthians, who were yet carnal in some ways. (1Cor. 3:2)
And thus as seen in the last verse above, the fact that they were a indwelt by God, individually and corporately “habitation of God thru the Spirit,” (Eph. 2:22) is used as an appeal that they should live that out practically. Likewise the Galatians, who were in danger of making Christ of none effect by declension into Judaism, (Gal., 5:1-14) had the Spirit of Christ. (Gal. 4:6,29)
And as shown, 1Jn. actually censures those who deny they have any sins, not just they who deny they ever had sinned, and assures born again believers that they have forgiveness upon repentant confession of sin.
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. “ (1 John 1:8-9)
And as also shown, holy born again men such as Peter sinned, even if out of weakness and not in willful rebellion, (Gal. 2:11b).
In addition, as shown (see here http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2931985/posts?page=289#289), texts that refer to Christians sinning now are in the continuous sense as practicing righteousness versus impenitently practicing unrighteousness, and cannot be used in an absolute sense, as Scripture is consistent with itself.
However, while you want to use text of Scripture, you do not and cannot (consist with your doctrine) define texts based upon context, grammar, genre etc, which are necessary even in communication here, but instead any text can mean whatever you say they esoterically mean according to your “holy” understanding.
And which “revelation” you make superior to the Bible, and as also with cults, you subscribe to the “lost books” and Da Vince Code conspiracy fantasy, as you cannot allow anything to challenge Masters esoterism as supreme. And which renders you as just one more doctrinal and psychological cult. You can now argue with them as to which one is the best one.
You have not addressed my point about Jesus and his lack of teaching of your precious trinity and him being a god.
Also of course once one is born again they are a new person but there is often a period of time of prayer and earnest desire before that appointed time set by God only for when that salvationcomes. That which frees us completley from sin as I have shown in scripture which you guys cannot deal with.
I (among others) have certainly addressed your claim about Jesus not being God more than once, such as here, and my link , here.
Nor can you even engage in exegetical examination of Scripture texts, as that requires examining context, grammar, genre, etc but such study of words is rejected by Masters in favor of his subjective esoteric revelations gained thru his mind mediation.
Thus the evidence testifies that His Deity certainly does not suffer from a lack of teaching on it, as instead Scripture as a whole requires it, as well as the belief in the deity of the Holy Spirit as a person.
Also of course once one is born again they are a new person but there is often a period of time of prayer and earnest desire before that appointed time set by God only for when that salvation comes.
"Of course" means you have avoided the difference, which is that the preparatory work of God which leads to being born again is not that of Masters system of mind-numbing mediation and its esoteric revelation, and which rejects serious studying the Scriptures, and in fact regeneration in Scripture often was preceded by the very kind of historical studying of Scripture texts (Acts 17:11; 18:28; 28:23) which Masters scorns. Instead souls were usually born again in the same hour as they heard the gospel. And at which time they confessed their faith in the Lord Jesus by baptism, which Masters likely has no use for in the literal sense.
Thus all the members of the churches were addressed as born again Christians. And as shown, they live sinless lives either. Masters is simply preaching another Jesus, Spirit and gospel, being the false apostle and deceitful worker that he is. (2Cor. 11:4,13) At least he is in the Bible.
That which frees us completley from sin as I have shown in scripture which you guys cannot deal with.
Rather, we have exegetically dealt with your duplistic "Scripture" claims by Scripture, refuting them, as just shown again , despite your rote denials and refusal to receive it. Those who say they have no sin deceive themselves, and the truth is not in them. (1Jn. 1:8) And as your responses show, Masters and his disciples are blind leaders of the blind.
No you have not squarley dealt with the FACT. That there are many passages that say we are free from sinning and do not sin after salvation. And once again Jesus did not address him being equal to God in all his teachings and parrables....FACT.
Like where fabie - more creative rewrites from masters?
1Jo 1:8 KJV - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:10 KJV - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
The bible says you are a liar fabie.
And once again Jesus did not address him being equal to God in all his teachings
Jn 8:57-59, Jn 17:5
Your 'facts' are fiction fabie.
And car thieves have a hard time finding police stations.
Rather than many passages saying we do not sin after salvation, Scripture indisputably actually teaches that Christian do after being born, as shown, and i actually provided many texts and also deal with studious exegesis of the few texts that are asserted to teach Christians no longer sin after being born again, but which you do not and cannot honestly engage is, studying to show thyself approved by God, (2Tim. 2:15) supposing your esoteric understanding under your master Masters trumps all.
Thus as shown (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2931985/posts?page=377#377), even your understanding foundational verse of “be still and know” is not a result of Biblical exegesis, but the text is invoked to prove what it does not contextually teach there, or in conflation with similar texts.
In addition, it is evident that not all truth or morality is explicitly stated (is cannibalism always wrong?), but what the weight of Scripture warrants in studious prayerful conflation with the rest. But which exegesis is rejected under Masters in lieu of his supreme revelations which are not exegetically derived, and that alone is what he thinks is holy. Thus his aforementioned words, “The whole process of growing is not from words but from realizing and then you can throw your Bible in the garbage can and there’s no sin in that.”
Yet even the container of that which is holy is sanctified by what it contains, and Scripture is written revelation, and is the only transcendent source which is affirmed to be the assured Word of God, (2Tim. 3:16) and which noble souls searched in determining the veracity of the apostles preaching, (Acts 17:11) and the study of it was appealed to many times in substantiating the claims of Christ.
But rejecting this means of understanding, your real defense for your elitist claims in the face of refutation remains to be your esoteric revelations as supreme. But to such the words of Christ apply, “If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.” (John 9:41)
I sent an entire list the other day...guess you missed so busy trying to be a wise ass. I will send it again for the challenged ones here.
Well then I am the only one wise here - whats your excuse?
What in the world are you talking about? Of course we have all sinning, that was not the point of anything here. What is wrong with you?
I meant all sinned...
“Rather, we have exegetically dealt with your duplistic “Scripture” claims by Scripture, refuting them, as just shown again , despite your rote denials and refusal to receive it.”
hogwash...I see your mo..I present some simple and concise bible quotes that clearly show that we are not to sin and have the power to not sin once we are truly reborn. Then you send all sorts of extracirricular texts that do not directly confront my simple quotes. You wash away the simpletruth with a multitude of of topic quotes and think you have somehow won or something just from the sheer volume of your intectualiztions. So here we are again...please do not dodge these. In your own words please tell me how you can say that a reborn person can still sin in context of these quotes. THank you.
1 Pet. 2:11 ABSTAIN FROM FLESHLY LUST, which war against the soul
1 Pet. 2:21 CHRIST also suffered for us, Leaving us an example, that YE SHOULD FOLLOW HIS STEPS
1 Pet. 2:22 WHO DID NO SIN
1 Pet. 4:1 He that hath suffered in the flesh HATH CEASED FROM SIN
1 Pet. 4:2 NO LONGER should LIVE the rest of his time IN THE FLESH to the lusts of men, but to the will of GOD
2 Pet. 2:4 If GOD SPARED NOT THE ANGELS THAT SINNED, but cast them down to hell
2 Pet. 2:5 AND SPARED NOT THE OLD WORLD, but saved Noah
2 Pet. 2:6 MAKING THEM AN ENSAMPLE unto those that after should live ungodly
2 Pet. 2:9 THE LORD KNOWETH HOW TO DELIVER THE GODLY OUT OF TEMPTATIONS
1 John 1:7 THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN
1 John 1:9 AND TO CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS
1 John 2:1 THAT YE SIN NOT,
1 John 2:6 HE THAT SAITH HE ABIDETH IN HIM OUGHT himself also so TO WALK, EVEN AS HE WALKED
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him SINNETH NOT
1 John 3:8 HE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVIL
1 John 3:9 WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOTH NOT COMMIT SIN
1 John 3:10 Whosoever DOTH NOT righteousness IS NOT OF GOD
1 John 5:18 Whosoever IS BORN OF GOD SINNETH NOT
2 John 9 Whosoever TRANSGRESSETH, AND ABIDETH NOT in the doctrine of Christ, HATH NOT GOD
3 John 11 He that DOETH GOOD IS OF GOD, but he that DOETH EVIL HATH NOT SEEN GOD AND THERE SHALL IN NO WISE ENTER INTO IT ANYTHING THAT DEFILETH, NEITHER WHATSOEVER WORKETH ABOMINATION OR MAKETH A LIE
So you see, you guys can be free of sin but WILL not in your willful ignorance and huge excuse making to the point of vilifying Roy Masters who provides a simple pathway to that salvation which is indeed Biblical.
can’t keep your story straight now
too bad your cherry pick
1 john 1: 8* If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
You are deceived fabie
And refuted assertions are just recycled as the same arguments, while rejecting exegesis based on linguistics, context, etc. For Masters has spoken; the matter is settled.
Note also the trick of making the issue that of having never sinned, rather than having sinned after being born again. I Jn, 1:8 deals with the latter, (cf. see Jn 9:41; 15:22,24) which Masters denies, and v. 9 deal with what to do with them, while v. 10 applies to those who deny they had sinned. And “in many things we offend all.” (Ja. 3:2a)
No, you are misreading me..daaaa! Obviously anyone paying attention knows that I am saying that sin does stop when we are reborn...not before! Hello! Oh boy.
And 1 John says that you are lying.
No, John is saying past sins. If you read what he actually says about he reborn state, he clearly says we no longer sin...clearly. No question about it. Do yourself a favor and stop trying with all your might at watering down the very power of what Jesus did for us because you are making a fool of yourself and so are the others.
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