“Rather, we have exegetically dealt with your duplistic “Scripture” claims by Scripture, refuting them, as just shown again , despite your rote denials and refusal to receive it.”
hogwash...I see your mo..I present some simple and concise bible quotes that clearly show that we are not to sin and have the power to not sin once we are truly reborn. Then you send all sorts of extracirricular texts that do not directly confront my simple quotes. You wash away the simpletruth with a multitude of of topic quotes and think you have somehow won or something just from the sheer volume of your intectualiztions. So here we are again...please do not dodge these. In your own words please tell me how you can say that a reborn person can still sin in context of these quotes. THank you.
1 Pet. 2:11 ABSTAIN FROM FLESHLY LUST, which war against the soul
1 Pet. 2:21 CHRIST also suffered for us, Leaving us an example, that YE SHOULD FOLLOW HIS STEPS
1 Pet. 2:22 WHO DID NO SIN
1 Pet. 4:1 He that hath suffered in the flesh HATH CEASED FROM SIN
1 Pet. 4:2 NO LONGER should LIVE the rest of his time IN THE FLESH to the lusts of men, but to the will of GOD
2 Pet. 2:4 If GOD SPARED NOT THE ANGELS THAT SINNED, but cast them down to hell
2 Pet. 2:5 AND SPARED NOT THE OLD WORLD, but saved Noah
2 Pet. 2:6 MAKING THEM AN ENSAMPLE unto those that after should live ungodly
2 Pet. 2:9 THE LORD KNOWETH HOW TO DELIVER THE GODLY OUT OF TEMPTATIONS
1 John 1:7 THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN
1 John 1:9 AND TO CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS
1 John 2:1 THAT YE SIN NOT,
1 John 2:6 HE THAT SAITH HE ABIDETH IN HIM OUGHT himself also so TO WALK, EVEN AS HE WALKED
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him SINNETH NOT
1 John 3:8 HE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVIL
1 John 3:9 WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOTH NOT COMMIT SIN
1 John 3:10 Whosoever DOTH NOT righteousness IS NOT OF GOD
1 John 5:18 Whosoever IS BORN OF GOD SINNETH NOT
2 John 9 Whosoever TRANSGRESSETH, AND ABIDETH NOT in the doctrine of Christ, HATH NOT GOD
3 John 11 He that DOETH GOOD IS OF GOD, but he that DOETH EVIL HATH NOT SEEN GOD AND THERE SHALL IN NO WISE ENTER INTO IT ANYTHING THAT DEFILETH, NEITHER WHATSOEVER WORKETH ABOMINATION OR MAKETH A LIE
So you see, you guys can be free of sin but WILL not in your willful ignorance and huge excuse making to the point of vilifying Roy Masters who provides a simple pathway to that salvation which is indeed Biblical.
too bad your cherry pick
1 john 1: 8* If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
You are deceived fabie
hogwash...I see your mo..I present some simple and concise bible quotes that clearly show that we are not to sin and have the power to not sin once we are truly reborn. Then you send all sorts of extracirricular texts that do not directly confront my simple quotes.
It is not surprising that Masters disciples regard Scriptural reproof as hogwash, but my many quotes were not certainly not “extracirricular” and instead they clearly substantiated that being born again is the beginning of Christian growth, resulting from hearing the gospel not Masters meditation, and that such as are born again sin after that, and which you cannot refute, but provide some texts which testify that you indeed ignore context and linguistics, etc, as you are not even supposed to be engaging in chapter and verse basis for truth.
“The very Scripture you study tells you that the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. What does that mean? It means simply that anything intellectual, including verse and chapter, regardless of how true it is, consists only of second-hand facts--facts which are supposed to awaken the soul, not to teach it. Get that through your thick skull--YOU ARE NOT MEANT TO LEARN VERSE AND CHAPTER. Study kills. It is a very dangerous "informing" indeed. . . .By all means read Scriptures, but do not study. . . . You are not going to fail or go to hell if you don't study. You are more likely to fail and go to hell if you DO.” . . . (Masters, The Satan Principle, pp. 38-39.)
And as shown, your use of these “proof texts” here is consistent with forcing texts and a lack of study, such as “they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. " (2 Peter 3:16) .
1 Pet. 2:11 ABSTAIN FROM FLESHLY LUST, which war against the soul.
Which is an exhortation, but not a statement that born again Christian never sin at all, which is what you cannot provide. And which premise is contradicted by statements as "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. " (1 John 1:8-9) And by others individually and collectively as will be shown.
1 Pet. 2:21 CHRIST also suffered for us, Leaving us an example, that YE SHOULD FOLLOW HIS STEPS.
Indeed we should, but again this exhortation does not teach that once one is born again they never sin, and is which premise is contradicted by the fact that such believers as the Corinthians were born again (1Cor. 6:19; 2Cor. 1:22; 5:5) but sinned. (1Cor. 3:3)
1 Pet. 2:22 WHO DID NO SIN.
And who was only one who never sinned, and to not sin is to be the goal of every believer, but which does not mean that once they are born again they will never sin, and which premise is contradicted by the fact that even born again Peter did. (Gal. 2:11ff)
1 Pet. 4:1 He that hath suffered in the flesh HATH CEASED FROM SIN.
Indeed he has, as this refers to death, not by meditating, as death is what the text is contextually referring to, that of the death of Christ, which you left out: "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; " (1 Peter 4:1) "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: " (1 Peter 3:18)
This does not teach that Christians are literally dead anymore than that they no longer sin, but that they are to put on “the same mind,” as in Rm. 6, "For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. " (Romans 6:10-11)
1 Pet. 4:2 NO LONGER should LIVE the rest of his time IN THE FLESH to the lusts of men, but to the will of GOD
Which is the next verse, and as shown, it is another exhortation as to what believers should do in the light of what Christ did, (cf. 1Pt. 2:24) flowing from the above, but which does not say or teach that once born again they no longer sin. And which premise is contradicted by such examples as the Galatians, who were born again (Gal. 3:2; 4:6,29) but were in a state of sinful spiritual declension. (Gal. 5:-1-4,15) having been “bewitched,” which is what Masters engages in.
2 Pet. 2:4 If GOD SPARED NOT THE ANGELS THAT SINNED, but cast them down to hell.
And which, true to form, is understood by you in isolation, as it refers to the willful rebellion of the angels, not Christians who sin out of weakness! And thus born again Christians (the only kind addressed) are exhorted to "lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. " (Hebrews 12:1-2) But according to you, born again believer cannot have any sins to lay aside.
2 Pet. 2:5 AND SPARED NOT THE OLD WORLD, but saved Noah 2 Pet. 2:6 MAKING THEM AN ENSAMPLE unto those that after should live ungodly.
And which again is understood by you in isolation, as it is not referring to those who who practice righteousness but yet commit actual sins sometimes, though they wish they never would and righteously repent when convicted of so doing, (2Sam. 12:13; 2Cor. 7:11) and instead it refers to a world of men in which “every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” (Gn. 6:5) That exegetical“revelation” is what actual studying versus Masters mind-numbing meditation will provide.
2 Pet. 2:9 THE LORD KNOWETH HOW TO DELIVER THE GODLY OUT OF TEMPTATIONS
Likewise here you are again “wresting' Scripture in ignorance of it, as this text actually refutes your salvation by sinless premise, as contextually the GODLY man which is referred to was Lot, who certainly was not an example of one who was no carnal at all and no longer sinned, (Gn. 19:32-35) but who did practice righteousness (being grieved by sin, and risking his life for the brethren, and who actually had two virgin daughters in the midst of a city given to fornication.)
1 John 1:7 THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN
Which is in the continual sense as they confess sins, (1Jn. 1:8,9; cf. Prov. 28:13) which is part of walking in the light, and thus it is teaching contrary to believers no longer sinning after they are born again, but instead affirms the cleansing of past sins and those confessed when and after one is converted and born again. And which event is the beginning of Christian growth. (Acts 15:7-9)
1 John 1:9 AND TO CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS
Once again you exclude the relevant context, this time the first part of the verse, which actually refutes your premise: “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 18,:9) The “we” here includes born again Christians, and cleaning takes place continually upon confession (“if we confess”), as being cleansed does not mean one no longer can have sins that need to be confessed, but confessing known sin is a continuing practice, even as the Lord taught believers to pray, "And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors." (Matthew 6:12)
1 John 2:1 THAT YE SIN NOT,
Once again you selectively leave out the context which denies support for your premise, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: " (1 John 2:1) As with other texts, the exhortation is to not sin, but not that believers never do, and thus provision for forgiveness is made when one does, as again, “we” includes born again believers.
1 John 2:6 HE THAT SAITH HE ABIDETH IN HIM OUGHT himself also so TO WALK, EVEN AS HE WALKED
This also is an exhortation (“ought”) , but does not teach that born again believers no longer sin, for “in many things we offend all, (Ja. 2:1) in word and in deed.
Thus so far you have zero texts that teach believers no longer sin after they are born again, or that is the results of spiritual growth via Masters type of meditation, versus clear support that being born again is the beginning of growth in grace, and such believers do sin afterward. Now we come to the texts which you must place your primary hope in, but which attempt is again a result of dealing with texts in isolation and without regard to linguistics, thus not rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him SINNETH NOT
1 John 3:8 HE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVIL
1 John 3:9 WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOTH NOT COMMIT SIN
1 John 3:10 Whosoever DOTH NOT righteousness IS NOT OF GOD
1 John 5:18 Whosoever IS BORN OF GOD SINNETH NOT
These all go together, and i have already shown that this does not say born again believers no longer commit any sins at all, which would require that they love God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength (Lk. 10.27 without fail 24/7, even in ignorance, (Lv. 4) but that linguistically the language refers to actually committing sin (breaking the law of God: 1Jn. 3:2) as a continuing impenitent practice, versus righteousness (which includes repentance).
And this is in contrast to defining the lost as those who practice unrighteousness, however they can do good things, likewise those born of God practice righteousness but sometimes actually sin, and can be immature (as has been shown). For as the quoted verse 10 teaches, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." Conversely, "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. " (1 John 2:29)
Thus taken in the absolute sense the lost are only those who never do righteousness, while doing righteousness renders one to be born of God, yet the lost can do things that are objectively righteous before they are born again, (Acts 28:2) which would make them born of God according to the absolutist understanding of these verses, while committing even one sin would make one to be of the devil. (“He that committeth sin is of the devil:” 1Jn. 3:8) However, once again it has been made clear that all those Paul addresses as believers were born again, and that such did sin after they are born again. Otherwise we would have a clear contradiction in Scripture.
Linguistically,
1 John 3:6: Sinneth not (ouch hamartanei). Linear present (linear menōn, keeps on abiding) active indicative of hamartanō, “does not keep on sinning.” For menō (abide) see 1Jo_2:6; Joh_15:4-10.
Whosoever sinneth (ho hamartanōn). Present (linear) active articular participle like menōn above, “the one who keeps on sinning” (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as hamartēsas, aorist active participle, would mean).
1Jogn 3:9: “Doeth no sin (hamartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in 1Jo_3:4 like hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin.
...this English naturally means “and he cannot commit sin” as if it were kai ou dunatai hamartein or hamartēsai (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8 and hamartanōn in 1Jo_3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see hamartēte and hamartēi in 1Jo_2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here. Paul has precisely John’s idea in Rom_6:1 epimenōmen tēi hamartiāi (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with hamartēsōmen in Rom_6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive). — Robertsons. More here:
2 John 9 Whosoever TRANSGRESSETH, AND ABIDETH NOT in the doctrine of Christ, HATH NOT GOD
This again is in the continuous sense, as that of impenitently practicing sin, versus righteousness which is part of walking in the light which reveals sin, (Eph. 5:13) while taken in the abolitionist sense of no longer committing any sin at all, which Masters erroneously holds to, would again render all the born again believers that Scripture affirms were born again but who sinned, to be of the devil, while making pagans who did any righteous deeds to be born of God. See in summary below.
3 John 11 He that DOETH GOOD IS OF GOD, but he that DOETH EVIL HATH NOT SEEN GOD AND THERE SHALL IN NO WISE ENTER INTO IT ANYTHING THAT DEFILETH, NEITHER WHATSOEVER WORKETH ABOMINATION OR MAKETH A LIE
Here you are guilty of leaving off the beginning of a verse and then combining part of another verses into one, while your continual shouting does not overcome your continually specious exegesis. For what is said in regards to the other like verses also applies here, as 3Jn. 1:11 begins with an exhortation “to follow not that which is evil, but that which is good,” and once again describes the those who are born of God as characteristically doing good (and “He that doeth” is not even in the Greek), versus those who characteristically are doing evil. But which taken in the absolutist sense would make pagans who did good to be born of God already, while making making Peter, and the born again Corinthians, Galatians, and all others who sinned after regeneration, to be of the devil. And which is not tenable regardless of the esoterical “undertstanding” resulting from Masters meditation.
So you see, you guys can be free of sin but WILL not in your willful ignorance and huge excuse making to the point of vilifying Roy Masters who provides a simple pathway to that salvation which is indeed Biblical.
Rather, unlike the false apostle and deceitful worker which Masters is, believers are cleansed of their sins by repentant faith in the sinless shed blood (Rm. 3:25; Acts 20:28; Col. 1:14) of the risen Divine Son of God, being born again through that faith, and are to live by every word of God, which requires studying it, while your ignorance of it is manifest in your attempt to engage in the chapter and verse exegesis which Masters deplores in favor his holy mind-numbing mediation, which even “be still” does not support.
In summary, exegetical examination reveals that Scripture does not support your premise, despite your often strained attempts, and in fact they collectively contradict it, and in review i will provide more texts including ones referenced before which must be ignored in order to cling to Masters soteriology:
To begin with, souls were born again upon hearing the gospel, usually in the same hour as they first heard it, not because of a period of growth through Masters type of meditation:
"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:37-38)
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." (Acts 10:43-44)
"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith." (Acts 15:8-9)
And thus those Paul addressed in such places as Corinth and Galatia had been born again:
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" (1 Corinthians 6:19)
"Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. " (2 Corinthians 1:22)
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. " (Galatians 4:6)
However, carnal immaturity and sin was evident among the same:
"And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration." (Acts 6:1)
"And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?" (1 Corinthians 3:1-3)
"Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? " (1 Corinthians 6:7)
"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision." (Galatians 2:11-12)
Thus all these were of the devil according to the absolutist understanding of 1Jn. 3:6-10 etc. In addition pagans could engage in doing good, even to the brethren, which according to the absolutist understanding of 1Jn. 3:10 and 3Jn. 1:11 would make them already born of God.
"And the soldiers' counsel was to kill the prisoners, lest any of them should swim out, and escape. But the centurion, willing to save Paul, kept them from their purpose; and commanded that they which could swim should cast themselves first into the sea, and get to land: " (Acts 27:42-43)
"And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold." (Acts 28:2)
Moreover, born again believers are told to repent of sins, and are assured of forgiveness upon confession of them, and are chastised to bring repentance, which testifies to the reality that they yet sinned, and which things would be superfluous if they no longer sinned.
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, " (Hebrews 12:1)
"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. " (Revelation 3:19)
"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. " (1 Corinthians 11:31-32)
And rather than no longer sinning at all characterizing those who are born of God, those who say they have no sins to confess are excluded as being of God:
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. " (1 John 1:8-9)
But again, all this and systematic theology is superfluous to those who hold that their revelation achieved through cultic meditation is what is holy, not the Bible, and reject contextual and linguistically “chapter and verse” type study as bringing understanding. As Masters taught, “One day, after discovering many things, the Spirit will lead you to read Scripture. At that time you will find joy on accepting the Witness to the Scriptures, rather than verses and chapters. What a contrast this is to accepting the Bible as the word of God: You will see it as messages from God. But wicked men bait you to accept "God's Word" in the form of a book instead of that Witness in yourself.” (How to Conquer Suffering Without Doctors, pp. 198-199)
Thus, rather than deriving doctrine from the Bible as the supreme authority, as seen in Scripture, and subjecting all to that, Masters first gets his “understanding” by subjective means, and then carelessly invokes some texts which he sees as confirming it, irregardless of exegetical analysis which is disparaged. To which applies, "The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason. " (Proverbs 26:16) And "The simple [in the pejorative sense] believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. " (Proverbs 14:15)
And as Masters superior understanding is independent of the Scripture, you can even throw the Scriptures away: “The whole process of growing is not from words but from realizing and then you can throw your Bible in the garbage can and there's no sin in that.” ("The Mystery of Golgotha" tape) And as his own mind is supreme, following his own spirit (Ezekiel 13:3) and worse, then it is not allowed than any may refute him and his false gospel. And which presumption is to his own damnation and those of those who are deceived by him. (Gal. 1:6-9)
May God grant you and them repentance unto the acknowledging of the truth. (2Tim. 2:25)