Posted on 05/27/2012 5:48:19 AM PDT by FLAMING DEATH
We've all been there...walking around the local gun store (or, as I like to call it, the Magic Goody Shop) and seen Russian-made steel cased .223 ammo selling for quite a bit less than the brass versions of the same rounds. And, many of us have fallen to temptation and bought scads of the stuff, thinking of how much money we'll save, and how we can plink 'til our heart's content for pennies on the dollar.
And then, many of us have faced the bitter disappointment of repeated malfunctions and losing money when we give away a large pile of ammo that simply won't function properly in our guns.
I've seen quite a few stories of people trying to shoot steel cased ammo out of an AR-15 rifle with less than satisfactory results. The most common issue is the dreaded "stuck case", where the case wedges itself so firmly in the chamber that the extractor simply doesn't have the "oomph" to move it. In fact, most often, the only remedy is to put a cleaning rod down the bore of your gun and whack it with a hammer.
That's what I had to do. My AR was particularly finicky, barely firing 50 rounds of Wolf or Tula before hanging up completely, bringing an early ending to a day at the range. The thing would run like a champ all day long on brass, even crappy brass, but a couple boxes of Tula would bring it to its knees.
I began reading about this on the Internets, and it is a common problem. Many have the completely WRONG idea about what causes this, however.
First, it is NOT caused by a "lacquer coating" cooking off and leaving its residue in the chamber. If you don't believe me, get a spent shell and hit it with a blowtorch. Nothing's coming off of that sucker. If you've bought your ammo in the past few years, it doesn't even have lacquer on it.
Second, many people believe it is because the steel expands, and, being less flexible than brass, wedges itself in the chamber. That's not true either. But, steel being less flexible that brass does contribute to the problem.
The answer is simpler (and fortunately more correctable) than either of those.
Steel doesn't expand like brass does in the chamber. This allows a slight gap around the cartridge case upon firing. That gap admits powder residue and carbon into the chamber, which begins building up on the sides. Pretty soon, the dimensions of the chamber are too small to allow the casing to move freely in and out. The next time the bolt slams a round into the chamber, it wedges there, unable to be moved without physical intervention.
"Well," you might say, "the 7.62 x 39 rounds that I shoot are steel cased, and they don't have that problem". No, they don't. But, it is not because the blowback of residue into the chamber isn't happening. It is because of the shape of the round itself. The sides of the 7.62 x 39 are tapered enough that they can still overcome friction with the sides of the chamber. The .223 is far straighter, and so it is far more difficult for the extractor to overcome the frictional forces of the now smaller chamber that has a good hold on the straight walls of the shell case.
This is the problem I had with my rifle. On multiple occasions, always after firing less than 50 rounds of steel cased ammo, I have had a major stoppage with my AR. It always involved a spent case hanging up in the chamber, it always was impossible to clear without jamming a cleaning rod down the barrel and knocking it out, and it almost always put my AR out of action until I could take it home and work on it.
Once, while in the presence of a buddy of mine, I experienced the problem and he said, "You need to run a little brass in every mag to keep it cleaned out."
That didn't make sense to me. How did brass keep the action clean? Besides, common knowledge was that you never mix steel and brass when shooting...that mixing the two would only make this problem worse.
Then I read this article on the Box O' Truth http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm about steel case and brass cased ammo. Although their hypothesis confirmed my friend's statement that brass ammo could help clean the chamber, they stopped short of recommending (or figuring out) that running steel and brass together can make a gun run more reliably.
I figured it was up to me to test it.
I started by cleaning the chamber thoroughly and soaking it down with CLP. I then loaded my mags with one round of brass case for every 9 of steel. Then, I headed to the range.
Fully expecting to get a stoppage before the end of mag number two, the AR kept eating the steel case well past that point. The brass coming out eventually carried a considerable amount of black deposit on the outside of it. It was rock hard and couldn't be scraped off with a fingernail. I did a variety of shooting, including slow firing (shooting once every 20 seconds or so), sustained slow firing (shooting once every five seconds), fast firing (shooting as fast as I could pull the trigger) and even some bump firing (near automatic rates of fire).
The AR had two hiccups, probably attributable to the Russian ammo's lower power. On the first, the round didn't quite come all the way out of the mag. I gave the bottom of the mag a whack and it kept going. The next, the bolt didn't appear to come back far enough to grab the next round. A quick pull of the charging handle fixed it. The gun seemed to run fine otherwise, and most importantly, no casings were getting stuck in the chamber. After five mags and nearly 150 rounds, I was running out of time and would be late for another engagement, so I packed it up to continue testing later. Besides, the gun showed no signs of slowing down. I was satisfied.
I have seen other options recommended, such as changing uppers or barrels to get a chromed chamber, or using a chamber reamer. Both would probably work, but for the occasional use of steel cased ammo, both seem to be overkill. A 100 round box of cheap brass cased ammo should let you shoot 1000 rounds of steel case, if this method works for you. You might even be able to tweak the ratios and get away with 1 for 20 or 1 for 30.
If you have an AR that doesn't like steel ammo, but have a stockpile of it or have a source where you can get it for cheap, it's worth a try to mix some brass in with the steel and see if your AR will run it.
The CZ 82 is a great bargain and a great design.
Sweet shooter.
Barrel steel is fairly soft steel, hardened steel would be crack prone.
I have only witnessed people have issues with the inadvertant barrel fluting in pistols. As I said, I think it is the angle of incidence as the case enters the chamber.
The ammo I ran in this experiment was about 50% Herters, which is Tula, and regular old Tula that I bought at Wal Mart. I had no major stoppages with any of it, and wouldn’t hesitate, when mixing with brass, to use it for practice or plinking.
I’ve never seen steel cased 7.62x25
I cant find it at all any more other than commercial stuff, but all the mil surplus I have ever seen was brass cased.
Highly recommended.
Polygonal rifling, ambidextrous safety, high cap mags, good sights, excellent DA/SA trigger.
Other than the durakote like finish, what’s not to like?
I had FTEs and blown primer pockets with Herters
Nothing but trouble for me.
I appreciate the suggestion of including a brass round every so many steel cased rounds. I buy bulk IMI brass rounds from a local distributor so this is a suggestion I can use even if it isn’t a proven help yet.
Anything heavier than 70 grains should have a 1:7 ratio or better. 70 grains is max for a 1:9 ration i believe.
I wish I had bought a ton of the Romanian stuff when it was $50 a spam can
Modern handguns SHOULD be able to handle steel cased ammo without issues. Lower pressure rounds mean that a softer barrel can be used, but ALL steels used in gun manufacturing have to be hardened to a degree. Even the softest barrel should be harder than the steel used in the cases, not considering the fact that the cases themselves are coated with a polymer that should minimize, if not eliminate any possibility of damage to the barrel/ramps. Not saying that it couldn’t or doesn’t happen, but if the manufacturer made the steel soft, then you’d be seeing other issues as well, such as damage to the lugs, pivot cams, etc.
From the Ruger SR-1911TM manual:
“The SR1911TM pistols are compatible with all factory ammunition of the correct caliber loaded to U.S. Industry Standards, including high-velocity and hollow-point loads, loaded in brass, aluminum, or steel cartridge cases. No .45
Auto ammunition manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S., SAAMI, or CIP standards is known to be beyond the design limits or known not to function in these pistols.”
I’ve heard that Glock and Taurus both say that steel cased ammo is perfectly acceptable for use with their pistols.
Even some mainstream manufacturers, such as Hornady, are beginning to use steel cases.
That said, some manufacturers still don’t recommend you use steel cases with their pistols. I’d encourage anyone interested to check with your manufacturer and make your own judgment about whether or not to try it.
Everything else is brass. Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian and Czech
It is and it’s a hoot!
Much funner and prettier than the PPS 43
I love 7.62x25
Its a really fun cartridge.
The steel in barrels is generally 25-30 on the Rockwell C scale. Not purposefully soft, but of functional use steels it is definitely on the soft end of the spectrum.
Yes, I agree. This is one of those issues on which everyone has a personal opinion, but one can find very little “official” information. I’m like you, though, in that I would like to see a definitive test, either positive or negative, regarding long term use of steel ammo in pistols.
Much of the available seems anecdotal, but then, most problems that people aren’t aware of as “problems” start out as anecdotal.
I guess the best I can say is, using the particular equipment that I’ve used, I haven’t noticed any differences. And, I do tend to think that some types of guns would obviously be more susceptible based on how they were constructed than others.
The thing is, too, that most wouldn’t be willing to subject their equipment to long term testing of something that many believe could cause damage. And there’s also a possibility that someone who damaged their firearm wouldn’t be bragging on the Internets about doing such a “stupid thing”, so it would be under reported.
If I run across any tests that confirm one way or another, I’ll post them. I’d certainly be interested in knowing more about it.
Until then, caveat emptor. I’ll keep looking and see what I find.
Yes I do thank you for the precise formulas for proper conversion.
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