EXCLUSIVE: Apple Has Destroyed 490,000 American Jobs

Business Insider ^ | May 1, 2012, 12:02 PM | Eric Platt and Ben Duronio

[Swordmaker]

After taking heat for shipping jobs to China and contracting to employers with questionable labor conditions, Apple (rather publicly) took credit for creating more than half a million jobs in the U.S.

514,000 to be exact. 

That figure included nearly 50,000 employees in its retail network and its corporate headquarters, where products are designed.

But it also included FedEx and UPS employees who deliver its products and employees at Corning who make glass for iPads and iPhones.

So Apple basically counts anyone vaguely associated with the company or its products as a job that Apple created.

But what about the competitors Apple has bumped off in its relentless move to the top? 

What about the once-profitable markets, products, and companies it has destroyed? What happened to those jobs?

Business Insider analyzed data on Bloomberg, went through dozens of 10-Ks, and read through layoff announcements to see how Apple's peers have done.

What we found:

Apple has destroyed nearly as many jobs as it helped create, eliminating some 490,570 positions.

Click here to see the jobs that Apple has destroyed

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here's another fact in the U.S. , manufacturing jobs as a percentage of population are at 3.8%.

It's amazing how productive American workers can be.

And you believe all these “stats” that the U.S. manufactures more than China?

I believe American stats are much more accurate than any numbers collected from local Communist officials.

It's even worse when you look at the long term decline of manufacturing jobs , they are declining at an alarming rate and even more so as a percentage of population .

Why ignore the even larger long term decline of agricultural jobs?

[expat_panama]

Did you even look at my post?

Look at it? Hell, I quoted it!   OK, I know your post was really big and you're very proud of it and love to show it off, but frankly I'm just not that impressed with the size of a post as much as I care about what it does.  

The thread's topic is Apple, 490,000 jobs, and American industrial production.  When you start out a post changing the topic to me and what I'm doing I get bored and stop reading.  Let me know when you get back on topic.

[expat_panama]

Workers in manufacturing declined from 17 million to 11 million since the year 2000.

Right.  Well actually it's more like 12 million but back in '79 it was almost 20 million.   Here's the whole picture--

Cutting those stupid manufacturing positions was the smartest thing we ever did; we're so much better off now than we were in Carter's 1979, we now have half as many workers producing twice as much value.  What's not to like?  

Our soaring productivity has really made America stronger and more powerful ---average real household wealth has increased by 70% while average household real incomes have doubled!   All this while the USSR (our biggest foreign problem) simply evaporated.

[redgolum]

Bit hard to make that claim. For instance, it can be argued that Amazon killed Circuit City.

[BfloGuy]

You don’t believe in individual rights, only corporate rights. That is the basis of ‘free trade’ and the globalist communist system it presumes to construct.

Don't tell me what I believe. You're wrong on free trade. That's it. Individuals trade. All production is ultimately for the individual consumer.

If you think a corporation has no obligation except to themselves, which you do,

No. I don't. A corporation's obligations to itself are meaningless if it does not sell a product or service that people buy in sufficient quantities and at a price that makes a profit.

Underneath it all, you are not talking about the freedom of people to trade with people, but for corporations to be freed from any restraint set on them by sovereignty, borders, and cultural mores and morals of a nation.

Corporations are made up of individuals -- American citizens usually. You think the government should dictate their terms of trade. Other than providing courts for alleged fraud, I don't.

There is no purpose to continuing this. You just keep telling me that I don't believe what I believe. How ridiculous is that?

[hedgetrimmer]

‘free trade’ is not ‘individuals trade. It is a globalist monster conceived in the UN and created by US tax dollars when the GATT was ratified.

It gives corporations, especially transnational corporations the ability to skirt sovereignty, national borders and national laws. It does not give ‘individuals’ the freedom to do that.

Corporations are the only groups represented in ‘free trade’ and though you say a corporation is made up of individuals, so is a communist collective.

Corporations have no cap on political donations, but individuals do, and therein lies the corruption of our politicians by free traitors.

You can deny all you want the reality of ‘free trade’, but plenty of us have watched its creation and as it grows, our economy and sovereignty decline. It is DIRECTLY related to free traitor corruption of our government.

You have read the GATT, and the numerous globalist trade agendas via the Doha round, the WTO, the EX-IM bank, the OPIC,the Millennium Challenge corporation and the USTR office to name just a few.

Because you are so well informed on reading materials from these internationalist organizations now running trade for the US, I am sure you understand that ‘free trade’ isn’t.

[BfloGuy]

You have read the GATT, and the numerous globalist trade agendas via the Doha round, the WTO, the EX-IM bank, the OPIC,the Millennium Challenge corporation and the USTR office to name just a few.

As I continue to try to get through to you, politicians call it "free trade." It isn't. If governments manage it, it isn't free. I can't wait to hear back why you disagree with that.

But I'm sure you will.

By the way, I told you this same thing about 10 posts ago. You ignored it then? Why are you bringing it up now. I have never once insinuated support for these international trade-regulation schemes. Again, they call it "free trade" but it ain't.

True free trade actually did exist in most of the developed world from about 1870 till WWI -- it was coincidentally the period when most of the developed world was on the classical gold standard. You didn't even need a passport to travel to Europe, let alone permission to sell a product there.

[rurgan]

And you believe all these “stats” that the U.S. manufactures more than China?

I believe American stats are much more accurate than any numbers collected from local Communist officials.

It’s even worse when you look at the long term decline of manufacturing jobs , they are declining at an alarming rate and even more so as a percentage of population .

Why ignore the even larger long term decline of agricultural jobs?

We are talking manufacturing. So you agree that manufacturing jobs are declining. Those jobs have been declining at an alarming rate. China added more manufacturing jobs than are in the whole of the U.S.A and you believe the liberal media stats that say the U.S. manufactures more. China has more manufacturing workers than 33% of the U.S. population. And the U.S. manufacturing jobs have declined ,no at only 3.8% of U.S. population. and you really believe the U.S. manufactures more? That’s not true but propaganda.will we be better off when it’s at 1% of population(that’s the way its going)?

You really think that letting china steal hundreds of industries is good for the U.S.A.? China has stolen hundreds of industries like those making TVS, smart phones, ipads,laptops, cell phones, consumer electronics of all types etc. and all their parts, and their parts and so on.. it is not good for the U.S. you are misguided by globlalist/international socialist propaganda. The U.S. must manufacture those high tech products here or we are done. and We don’t and also in hundreds of other industries.

[rurgan]

So you agree that U.S. manufacturing jobs are declining. Those jobs have been declining at an alarming rate.In a few years, China added more manufacturing jobs than are in the whole of the U.S.A and you believe the liberal media stats that say the U.S. manufactures more. China has more manufacturing workers than 33% of the U.S. population. And the U.S. manufacturing jobs have declined ,now at only 3.8% of U.S. population. and you really believe the U.S. manufactures more? That’s not true but propaganda.will we be better off when it’s at 1% of population(that’s the way its going)?

You really think that letting china steal hundreds of industries is good for the U.S.A.? China has stolen hundreds of industries like those making TVS, smart phones, ipads,laptops, cell phones, consumer electronics of all types etc. and all their parts, and their parts and so on.. it is not good for the U.S. you are misguided by globlalist/international socialist propaganda. The U.S. must manufacture those high tech products here or we are done. and We don’t and also in hundreds of other industries.

[rurgan]

U.S jobs in manufacturing are only 3.8% of the U.S. Population and declining. You think this is a joking matter. this as a matter of life and death for millions of Americans and for the U.S.A.

20 years ago anyone could find a job easily. Now you need 2 years experience, references, 3 interviews for a minimum wage job in a restaurant. and you compete with 40 others for that job.over 40% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. How many morons are on welfare, work for the government or a government contractor or a nonprofit, or universities etc? that’s most of the workforce surely more than 3.8%. funny that I think we should stop China and increase that 3.8% and you disagree with me

[rurgan]

Production of pig iron/steel is about half of what it was in 1940! China makes more steel than the rest of the world COMBINED. Nothing to see here, move along.

Yes and that was with 1/3 the population we have now and when technology was light years behind what it is now. and it’s even worse in consumer electronics. the U.S. manufactures zero smarth phones, ipads, lapttops , cell phones and thousands of other electronic products and their parts and related industries. China stole all of these industries . U.S. manufacturing jobs now at 3.8% of U.S. population and declining . We are done if we don’t start making things in the U.S.A. SOON. Start a trade war with China and other countries or at least put numerical limits on imports like smart phones ,etc.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why ignore the even larger long term decline of agricultural jobs?

We are talking manufacturing.

Isn't food more important? Our agricultural employment has dropped further for much longer than manufacturing. Why do we still grow any food?

So you agree that manufacturing jobs are declining.

Of course. Unlike you, I'm actually familiar with reality.

and you believe the liberal media stats that say the U.S. manufactures more.

The media doesn't produce our manufacturing stats. Do you believe the Chinese communists who produce their stats? Why?

You really think that letting china steal hundreds of industries is good for the U.S.A.?

Do you really think I claimed that? Anywhere? Ever?

[B Knotts]

The whole article is goofy, but how do they blame BestBuy layoffs on Apple, when Macs, iPhones and iPads are sold at BestBuy?

[expat_panama]

...U.S jobs in manufacturing are only 3.8% of the U.S. Population and declining. You think this is a joking matter...

Please allow me to interrupt the conversations you're having with your imaginary freepers because I need to tell you something important. 

Sounds a lot like you want the US to be more like China with state control of how much of the population works in which sector.  Now, ordinarily I'd not bother talking to people with crazy ideas like that but atm we got a bunch of Marxist union thugs in Washington that are threatening to do just that.  Personally I don't think y'all will get away with it because history's on the side of the optimists.  Also, I'm thinking that just because you want America to do what China does, I honestly don't think you want America to actually be like China.  You may stop and think about what you're saying.

...You really think that letting china steal hundreds of industries is good for the U.S.A.?...

Whoa you're talking to your imaginary friends again -- let's try and hang on to the real world just a bit more. 

China did not 'steal' US industries.  What really happened is that I built industries in the US and then I sold my industries to people in China.  Last week I wasn't building anything --largely because of those union thugs in Washington-- but right now I'm trying to build a pharmaceutical factory because it's looking like the courts are kicking y'all out of the healthcare business.

Bottom line here is that if you don't like what I'm doing with my factories then you can go out and build your own factories and do what you want.  Don't tell me what to do with mine.  It's a free country.

[rurgan]

Look at history. The U.S. had high tarrifs all throughtout its history and it had limited government.

I never said that the government should control anything domestically. Just put the embargo in place (or a partial embargo) on china and other countries. The U.s. had a trade embargo on China and Russsia for 40 years of the cold war. Ditto for Cuba . so you are saying that we have to give China, Cuba and other rogue regimes complete access to America, America's industries etc. otherwise then we are marxists. ridiculous. You are saying anyone calling for stopping things from invading the U.S. like illegals, cocaine, China products anyone that says that is a Marxist. what you say is ridiculous. I am for the government removing the 100,000's of pages of regulations against U.S. businesses, and most of the the hundreds of thousands of pages of laws and removing almost all of the government agencies like the EPA, IRS, FEC, HHS, HUD , government schools, dept of energy etc.. You agree with Obama, Marx and democrats on free trade because it destroys the U.S. border and the U.S.

There is nothing in the constitution that says we have to trade with any country.

We have to limit things coming in the country and put restrictions on other countries. I am for removing regulations against individuals and businesses inside the U.S. but the federal government should stop illegals, china armies, China products all which are destroying or could destroy America.

What you say is ridiculous. That we or the government has no right to defend America or keep out illegals or foreign threats. That's what the federal government is there for. then I want the government out of the way of businesses inside the U.S.

The U.S. was on top of the world during the trade embargo against China . after starting trade with china the U.S. decline in manufacturing started and so has the general U.S. decline. Then the declines accelerated with Clinton's free trade agreement.

China has been waging economic war against the U.S. mostly by manipulating its currency relative to the U.S. currency which gives China a manufacturing advantage of 30 times as this causes companies to have to pay U.S. workers 30 times what China workers earn. So who would pay U.S. workers that much when they can pay China workers 50 cents an hour. And you all say that the U.S. makes more than china .

[expat_panama]

That's nice, but we're talking about your question "letting china steal hundreds of industries is good for the U.S.A.?" and my answer in post 194.   I still say you can't have my factories and you're going to have to go build your own.

[Toddsterpatriot]

after starting trade with china the U.S. decline in manufacturing started

Decline? We manufacture more and more with fewer workers. That's called productivity, not decline. Productivity is a good thing.

manipulating its currency relative to the U.S. currency which gives China a manufacturing advantage of 30 times as this causes companies to have to pay U.S. workers 30 times what China workers earn.

Their manipulation causes us to pay 30 times as much? Just when I didn't think your economic silliness could get any sillier, you exceed all my expectations.

Why don't you explain what the Yuan would be worth if they stopped their manipulation? Show all your work.

[rurgan]

After starting trade with china the U.S. decline in manufacturing started

Toddsterpatriot said:"Decline? We manufacture more and more with fewer workers. That's called productivity, not decline. Productivity is a good thing."

Yeah we make so much in the U.S. that's why for the last 15 years practically every time I looked a product like a cell phone it said Made IN China. Everyone I've talked to knows this. Only a few of you here disagree. U.S. manufacturing is in decline and will be gone soon.We don't even have hundreds of industries we used to have in the U.S.A like the TV making industry, what about the laptop industry, or the smart phone industry , and those for thousands of other consumer electronic products. Tell me how many ipads, kindles, smart phones, LCD TVs, laptops etc. are produced in the U.S.A. Go ahead name to me ONE company that produces consumer electronics in mass quantities in the U.S.A. If you can't then how can you say we are so productive and produce so much.Since you say we produce so much and are so productive whey don't we produce any of these products in the U.S.A. and what is so different from any product that is still being produced in the U.S.A( if any ) from these that protects them from being shipped to China or other countries? Where are almost all clothes etc produced? You think we can prosper or even survive if most ( soon all ) things we use are produced. Sure you keep saying we produce so much and use liberal media stats that include power plant production and mining and who knows what else. Well show me how many clothes we make in the U.S.A , laptops, TVS, radios, stereos, ipads , cell phones, etc: I think we make none of these in the U.S.A. And that is terrible for America. IT’s simple to bring those back just put quotas on imports (yes numerical limits on what china companies and other companies can send into the U.S.A. This is just changing existing laws which are already in place and very complex.
china stole hundreds of industries from the U.S.A. Practically all of the consumer electronics industries are in china now.

Look even if you are right in some way when you say that we still have some manufacturing in the U.S.A. that is even more ominous because that means we still have a way to fall even further as we lose what we have and why won't we lose whatever we have left? what protects what we produce if we couldn't protect consumer electronics, clothes , ipads, kindles, tvs, etc?

We the U.S.A. were much more above all other countries all through the 1900’s . In the 50’s , 60’s 70’s we were still very far ahead of other countries in rising living standards, technology , manufacturing etc. Imagine if we had built on that instead of letting economic competitors steal it all. Now we can't even manufacture most of the high tech products but instead borrow , and print money out of thin air to give to welfare idiots so they can buy smart phones made in China : that is our economy and what we come to . If we produced what we could , if we'd built on what we had in the 1970’s then we all would live in a super advanced society, we wouldn't be in debt but we'd all be wealthy instead we have feral beasts in decaying cities who are on welfare. I live here i see these monsters. it's not pretty.

Why don't you read this article. Every American who lives here should read it. It's a matter of life or death.It's an excerpt not from me.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/08/17/why-amazon-cant-make-a-kindle-in-the-usa/

Amazon couldn’t make a Kindle here if it wanted to

Decades of outsourcing manufacturing have left U.S. industry without the means to invent the next generation of high-tech products that are key to rebuilding its economy, as noted by Gary Pisano and Willy Shih in a classic article, “Restoring American Competitiveness” (Harvard Business Review, July-August 2009)

The U.S. has lost or is on the verge of losing its ability to develop and manufacture a slew of high-tech products. Amazon’s Kindle 2 couldn’t be made in the U.S., even if Amazon wanted to:

The flex circuit connectors are made in China because the US supplier base migrated to Asia.
The electrophoretic display is made in Taiwan because the expertise developed from producting flat-panel LCDs migrated to Asia with semiconductor manufacturing.
The highly polished injection-molded case is made in China because the U.S. supplier base eroded as the manufacture of toys, consumer electronics and computers migrated to China.
The wireless card is made in South Korea because that country became a center for making mobile phone components and handsets.
The controller board is made in China because U.S. companies long ago transferred manufacture of printed circuit boards to Asia.
The Lithium polymer battery is made in China because battery development and manufacturing migrated to China along with the development and manufacture of consumer electronics and notebook computers.

;

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah we make so much in the U.S. that's why for the last 15 years practically every time I looked a product like a cell phone it said Made IN China.

Yeah, well I've seen how weak your anecdotes have been.

U.S. manufacturing is in decline and will be gone soon.

Your original claim was that it was already gone. Now it's almost gone? After I showed you the $3 trillion gross value of American made products? LOL!

Sure you keep saying we produce so much and use liberal media stats

Is that like you using Chinese Commie stats?

Look even if you are right in some way when you say that we still have some manufacturing in the U.S.A.

What do you imagine the millions of American manufacturing workers do?

[BfloGuy]

Yeah we make so much in the U.S. that's why for the last 15 years practically every time I looked a product like a cell phone it said Made IN China.

Manufacturing output in the U.S. has doubled since 1974.

No. We don't make many of your mentioned consumer goods any more. We make capital goods -- and we make a lot of them. The United States still acounts for almost 1/5 of the economic output of the entire world.

The loss of consumer goods manufacturing has resulted in capital being shifted into the production of capital goods -- the products that businesses use to make other products and to provide their services: machine tools, aircraft, earth-moving equipment, trucks, energy, etc..

We're good at it. We have a comparative advantage in it. And it's more profitable than tying up our capital in IPhone assembly. It is part of the world-wide division of labor that has been going on since the Industrial Revolution.

Repeat -- manufacturing output in the U.S. has doubled since 1974. How can you possibly insist that it's declined? Now, it could be better. But until the federal government balances its budget, cuts corporate tax rates, eliminated taxes on capital, and stops inflating the dollar we should be pretty pleased we've done as well as we have.