Posted on 01/12/2012 10:29:33 PM PST by djf
Over the years, I have done quite a large amount of appliance/small engine/auto repair that I am wondering about going the tap-and-die route rather than running down to Home Depot or Lowes when I need a replacement.
So I am wondering what would be a good small hand set to start with (not 2 pricey) and what do you do about blanks? Blank bolts and nuts? I've never seen them but assume they must exist.
FR is the best place in the world to ask a question like this!
Thanks in advance!
I wish that I could help you, if my husband were on FR he would explain the whole deal with you until you passed out from asphyxiation but I know nothing. Good luck.
A die does the same for messed up treads on a bolt.
I suppose you could make your own, but it is labor intensive. Easier all around to replace what you can and repair what you can't.
Good for going Galt.
Lol!
Nuthin like having a guy around who can fix anything, right?
Threaded rod and nuts and bolts are mass produced...The only blanks I know of are rod stock and square stock that would need to be cut and shaped...Tap and die sets are usually for repair (If possible) ie..drill hole a little bigger and tap larger thread. Or clean up existing internal threads. Die to chase threads on studs and bolts to try to clean up...It`s what I do with mine...Do you have a Harbor freight Tools in your area?...Decent tools for cheap price.
Absolutely nothing from China, no matter how big of a bargain it appears. Even Sears taps and dies are at least marginal, and of one accomplishment I have in life was a city college course in Machine shop.
Its an art is all I can say, you need to understand the different types of pitch, threads in different types of steel and grades and the right lubricants.
And don’t forget the right drill bits, its not as easy as just drilling any sized hole. I cannot give you an exact brand name, I usually buy mine from a local industrial tool supply, a good 3/8ths USS taper tap is near $10, and then you have bottom taps...
Possibly the Sears Crafstmen sets are adequate, for the average use, myself I would go a bit better. Buy American.
Thanks! Those are the kinds of questions I have, things like hardness of steel, reverse thread, that sort of thing.
And I have gotten tools from China in the past, won’t make that mistake again, if it has chrome I think it’s hand painted, anything without chrome will rust out if you don’t keep it stored in an oiled rag...
I would not do this. First of all, rod stock is expensive and you’ll waste a certain amount. Second, it is not especially high quality steel. It’s just ordinary mild steel, not very high strength. It is by no means suitable for a headbolt, for example. You’ll just snap it. If you buy bolts, you can buy grade 3, 6, 8 bolts and know you are getting superior strength things. Third, you’ll alwsy have the issue of how “threadable” the end is, which you’d presumsably hack-saw off. Fourthly, there isn’t a great way to simulate the bolt head other than tightening two nuts together with a lockwasher between them, so now your bolt heads are bigger, and if the nuts are “out-of-sync” which they are likley to be, getting a wrench on the bolt in a tight spot isn’t that great a proposition.
With taps, make sure you use the correct sized drill, and do not use that drill for miscellaneous other stuff.
One thing I like to do when tapping holes in sheet metal is to mount the tap in a drill press and use the drill press (with power off) as an item that guides the tap into the hole at good right angles. Put the tap in the chuck and turn it by hand.
Get good quality stuff if you do this. Forget Chinese.
At 55 I have had the luxury of being called a very gifted fabricator. But anyway probably the best thing to do just starting from scratch is to do an internet forums search, its amazing how their can be a forum for just about everything, including the left turning tap groups.
A top of the line number and letter drill set to start you hou with the chart that tells you what size drill to use for what percentage of a cutting thread depth is VERY important.
I have taps from 1980 that I still use, they are from Snapon Tools. Tap s don’t last forever especially around stainless steel with I hate to have to drill and cut, its a tough one to cut if you work too fast, aluminum is my favorite but it too must be drilled and tapped with a special fluid unlike ferrous metals that use oil.
And then we have a growing use of metrics and their definitions of grades. Learning to read the marks on bolts is very important, its what makes your fastener “fasten”.
Sorry about my poor trying skills. I just woke up.
If you want to do this to save money, you won’t. When you kneed a bolt or nut, just by a box of them. Next thing you know you will have a stock of the sizes you will need, and you will get them at a reasonable price.
I’m an engineer, not a tool and die guy. However, even if you had rod stock, and dies to cut threads on them, how do you propose adding a head to make a bolt?
And then, how do you plan on hardening that bolt?
I’m all for being able to DIY in case of SHTF, but in this case I think I’d rather stockpile bolts (remembering that long ones can be cut shorter), nuts, washers and lock washers.
Hope I helped..you will get a chart usually for drill and tap sizes and such..also charts for hardness grading on bolt heads and so on...All the charts are easily copied off the web.
I have an old Audel’s Millwrights and Mechanics Guide That’s about 6” thich and 1000 + pages that cover the topic you are interested in and more in detail, its an old one that covers everything that you could want about mechanical technology, but I suppose you could get an updated version.
They have some guides on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Audel-Millwrights-Mechanics-Guide-Thomas/dp/0764541714
Good advise..
Except for most wood projects and some marine applications I always buy Grade 8 fasteners. Do I use lock washers, most of the time no, though you can get hardened split lock washers I prefer to use grade 8 steel jam nuts, not the nylon ones.
Washers have their grades as well, then you have SAE and USS washers, I mostly use SAE washers, you don’t use grade 5 washers under grade 8 SAE bolts, you will just smash the softer washer and then you get a loose fastener.
Now as far as making bolts I actually do make my own a lot but its usually from all thread rod or marine fasteners such as brass or stainless. I can thread grade 8 bolts but it usually wears out the die after the first time.
I too recommend just stockpiling fasteners. Find a local industrial supply warehouse and get a large bin organizer.
Fascinating.
Thanks.
Nuts and bolts? Just buy a variety and pay attention to what is stamped on the head. Those hash marks indicate strength.
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