America's Unjust Revolution: What British Tyranny? (Was the American Revolution a Just War?)

The American Spectator ^ | 09/13/2010 | John Keown

[SeekAndFind]

EXCERPT :

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Imagine that thousands of American citizens, wanting to leave the mainland in search of a better life and to populate a large, uninhabited island a thousand miles off the west coast of the U.S., petition the U.S. Government to live on the island under U.S. jurisdiction, ruled by a Federal Governor. The Government agrees.

No sooner have the emigrants planted the Stars and Stripes on the island than they strike gold, build up a healthy trade with the mainland, and become hugely wealthy. However, the Japanese, wanting to expand their sphere of influence and enrich their coffers, invade the island. The U.S. successfully defends the island in a major, protracted war which costs many American lives and drains the U.S. Treasury.

To offset the massive cost of the war and of guaranteeing the island's security (a cost which has produced large tax hikes for Americans on the mainland), the U.S. Government imposes a modest tax on coffee imported by the islanders. Some islanders refuse to pay, claiming that as they have no right to vote for members of the U.S. Congress, the Federal tax demand is unwarranted. They seize a U.S.-registered ship in the island's port and jettison its cargo of coffee into the sea. They also assault IRS officials, riot, and torch the Governor's mansion.

When a detachment of U.S. Marines is sent to the island to restore order, some islanders confront them with loaded rifles and with cannon stolen from the local Federal Armory. Shots are exchanged. besieged by the rebel islanders.

SNIP

The U.S. Government demands that the rebels lay down their arms and respect U.S. law. The rebels (representing perhaps only a third of the island population) refuse and declare independence,

SNIP

A full-scale war between the rebel islanders and the U.S. ensues.

[Rockingham]

Among other causes and justifications for the American Revolution, one must add the gross corruption of many royal officials, the erosion of well-established legal rights, and increasingly provocative and forceful conduct by the British.

Moreover, just war analysis imposes special obligations on the British in that they were the rulers. There would not have been a Declaration of Independence and Revolution except that the British deliberately chose force instead of reconciliation and fair resolution of colonial grievances.

The British chose force in the belief that, for the sake of imperial administration, the colonies needed to pay more in taxes and knuckle under to the government. This was especially foolish move in that British history manifested the willingness of the people to rebel against abuses of royal authority.

[SeekAndFind]

RE: So do you support or oppose the author’s premise? Or are you neutral, viewing it as an interesting but irrelevant debate?

---

I am neutral. I don’t know enough about the circumstances and the extent of British tyranny at that time ( e.g. was their taxation so oppressive that it killed the livelihood of the people in the American colony? If so, how oppressive?).

That is why I posted this thread, for discussion and to learn.

BTW, there are also many conservatives who believe the Civil War was not necessary and the slaves would have been freed ultimately due to many factors beyond the South’s control. In other words, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people was not necessary.

So, the debate goes on....

[Tennessee Nana]

LOL

I have FIVE Loyalist ancestors...including 2 women..

my 4X ggrandfather, his father, his FIL, his MIL, and his GIL..(grandmother-in-law)..

My family fought on both sides..

The 3 brothers who moved to the Susquehanna Valley in PA fought for Britian..

The brothers who stayed in New York were rebels/patriots...

:)

Tennessee Nana UE

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

The taxation of the American colonies was extremely light compared to that of the British mainland. In fact, even after the taxes Westminster imposed on the colonies, they were still probably the most lightly-taxed people in the world. It wasn't the level of the taxes that was the issue, but the legality of them.

I think a far more pressing issue than the actual level of tax was the state of the coinage in the colonies, hampering commerce. The supply of coinage in the Americas was grossly inadequate and the British government refused to address the issue, partly because there was also a coin shortage at home as well....

[RegulatorCountry]

The Catholic contribution to the American Revolution was vanishingly small by comparison to that of Protestant groups, primarily Scotch-Irish Presbyterians. There’s a reason that conflict was widely known as The Presbyterian Revolution, even by King George III himself.

The benefit of the Constitution and Bill Of Rights is availalable to all. That is the good that came from the centuries of persecution, first at the hand of the Catholic Church and then at the hand of the various, established State Churches of Europe, whether COE or other Protestant denomination, much to their everlasting shame. This persecution was experienced by Protestant and Catholic alike, and at the hands of both.

That Spain and France came to the aid of a rebellion that threatened their rival holds no significance whatsoever, other than geopolitical scheming for advantage. Nations do that, still do in fact. It bore no imprimatur of approval by the Vatican or from Catholics elsewhere in the world. Religious freedoms as understood in America under our Constitution did not gain recognition and acceptance by the Vatican until the sixties, with the advent of Vatican II. Freedom to read Protestant Bibles, freedom of religious dissent, all of that was verboten up until that point, no matter what dissenter you may care to cite.

That’s the way history unfolded. The Catholic Church has now embraced religious freedom, as did Jesus Christ and as is written in the Bible. Good for them. No need to resort to revisionist history, however. Good Christians brought this change about, accept that and move forward. It matters not that they professed no fealty to Rome.

[piytar]

Freeper Land is definitely a good place to do that, discuss and learn. FWIW, I don't think the taxes were high at all. FAR lower than what we deal with today. That said, the Boston Tea Party wasn't about the amount of the tax, but the symbolism of Parliment asserting authority to tax people who had no representation. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party for a decent overview. Of course, that was back when people would fight - and die - over principles.

Some real historians here in Freeper Land. Sure they'll be able to provide much more info.

[Billthedrill]

I find it difficult to imagine anything more academic and less relevant than the "just war" nonsense in that particular scenario. The war wasn't the point. Independence was. That might have been achieved without war, but it wasn't.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

That was the issue. The people have every right to do that anytime they wish, not whenever they're taxed more or less than other people somewhere else in the world. There isn't any requirement that "destructive" be proven in any fictive court of moral law. One might far more usefully turn the question around and ask "Was the British recourse to force of arms a just war?" Pitt thought not, and so did Burke.

[DesertRhino]

“harder to say we’re better off than we would have been had we remained under King George’s rule.”

You have to be kidding. The UK is currently almost a totalitarian state. All they are missing is death camps. But the fun part is,, you don’t really need them when it becomes impossible to function if a nanny state disapproves of you. One non-PC statement can get you charged criminally, fired from most jobs, etc. The state is everything there.

Notice those guys who find Roman or pagan gold on their property lately in England? They don’t get it, the state does.

I’d rather be here still, we at least have a fighting chance,,,

[Verginius Rufus]

Today happens to be Charles Carroll's birthday.

Canada, Australia, and New Zealand gained independence peacefully because the British had learned from their experience in the American Revolution.

The American Revolution wasn't necessary--it could have been avoided but for British arrogance. But we are better off for it--it inspired some fruitful thinking about how countries should be governed by the likes of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and James Madison, and we have been the beneficiaries ever since.

[muawiyah]

I've read that link, entire books, family Bibles in English, German, French and Swedish ~ PLUS every last detail of every census record for 1790 -1830 for Schoharie, Cherry Valley, etc. AND the records of the Old Yellow Church, and Drums Along the Mohawk.

You did know Schoharie burned down and we lost most of the detailed records so a lot of what is "known" today is actually speculation!

The Herkemir Militia ~ keep your eyes on that body ~ and BTW, the writer of that link assumed the nearby "friendly Indians" were Mohawk ~ I think he got the tribe wrong since they were Oneida and Canandaigua. The Mohawk, in the end, were not so friendly.

[muawiyah]

Regarding the Indians, the family Bibles refer to “the Mohawk Indians” but that’s gotta’ be a reference to the Indians then living ALONG THE MOHAWK RIVER ~ which runs through the area. The actual Indians in the vicinity are the Oneida and Canandaigua, not the Mohawk.

[ApplegateRanch]

“Just war”, “proportionate force”, and a few other loved-by-Leftists doctrines really need to be flushed.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

"...it’s getting hader and harder to say we’re better off than we would have been had we remained under King George’s rule."

The American Revolution wasn't against the King of England, it was against the traitorous Parliament who was using an incapacitated King as their prop.

Colonists were denied representation and were taxed by Parliament, not by the King of England.

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

George III wasn’t incapacitated during the AWoI. He didn’t have the first attack of porphyria until the late 1780s, some years after the AWoI.
But, other than that, yes, it was Parliament’s doing, not the King’s...

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

One might far more usefully turn the question around and ask "Was the British recourse to force of arms a just war?" Pitt thought not, and so did Burke.

A group of armed rebels forms an army, fights government troops and then declares independence? I hardly think it was unreasonable for the British to at least try and put down an armed rebellion like that by force of arms...

[KC_Lion]

Yes The Revolution was a true turning point in history, all of history, when Freedom, true Freedom came to people.......and some rulers today don't like that....

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

You have to be kidding. The UK is currently almost a totalitarian state. All they are missing is death camps. But the fun part is,, you don’t really need them when it becomes impossible to function if a nanny state disapproves of you. One non-PC statement can get you charged criminally, fired from most jobs, etc. The state is everything there. Notice those guys who find Roman or pagan gold on their property lately in England? They don’t get it, the state does. I’d rather be here still, we at least have a fighting chance,,,

First of all, that is a bit overblown. (And we have a new coalition government dedicated to repealing Zanu-Labour legislation, whereas you are still stuck with the Obamination). Secondly, are you saying that you could not be fired from your job in the US if you were caught making un pc comments? Because that isn't what I've heard:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/09/sharia-at-new-jersey-transit-man-fired-for-burning-quran.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVFP_2Wk9rg

And I'm sure we've been through UK treasure trove laws before. The state does not 'get' what is unearthed, local museums are given the first refusal on buying them, and they must pay full market value of what is found. They are the most enlightened laws of their kind in the world...

[SunkenCiv]

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[aquila48]

Once you get rid of all the obfuscating and self serving terms like “just” and “rights” and distill it to its essence, it simply comes down to this: the winner is just and right, if you want to use those terms. Or in simpler terms - you have winners and losers - period.

I know this offends the sensibility of many, but it’s simple reality.

It is my profound belief that you only own what you are willing and able to protect, by whatever means. And that applies to individuals as well as nations.

Yes, it’s a jungle out there!

[wolfcreek]

With the extent of today’s technology, I don’t think you can really compare the two.

Although, today, both countries live in a near police state.